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Discussion on Article:
DDR2 vs. DDR: Revenge Gained

Started by: Carfax | Date 12/19/04 12:04:41 AM
Comments: 58 | Last Comment:  11/01/09 08:53:51 PM

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1. 
Something is definitely wrong with the gaming benchmarks. Of all the games, Quake 3 should have shown an increase on DDR-667, but it didn't?!

[Posted by: Carfax  | Date: 12/19/04 12:04:41 AM]

2. 
It's also a shame you never did any benchmarks with the overclocked memory.

Other than that, a good review :) It's good to know that you can use aggressive timings at such high clockspeeds, without upping the voltage.

This speaks well for DDR2-800, which hopefully will be able to run at 4-4-4-12 in the future..
[Posted by: Carfax  | Date: 12/19/04 02:38:44 AM]

3. 
The OCZ Plat DDR2 EB is also able to do those timings on dual 1gb sticks which you won't find on high performance DDR1. Up the voltage a touch to 2.1 or 2.2 (not high just a nudge) and you can do 3-2-2-8 up to 600, which gives you nice air oc'ing room.

Can't wait for the 600 series cpu's :)
[Posted by: Anemone  | Date: 12/19/04 06:00:26 AM]

4. 
Other than the horrendous grammatical problems...

"You can see that DDR2-533 SDRAM with 4-4-4 timings has a half worse latency compared to the widespread DDR400 SDRAM."

(I could give more examples but I'd really rather not.)

...the article presents an unrealistic comparison of apples to oranges. For any of the types of ram they talk about, 2x512mb of DDR2 is approximately $350 - $400 USD. Now to buy 2x512mb of DDR400 with even better timings than the 2-3-2 or 2.5-3-3 they use in their comparison (i.e. 2-2-2-5 timings) it costs about $275 USD for either Corsair or OCZ. Or instead of the DDR533 they use in their comparison, why not use DDR550 which has the same timings as they list (2.5-3-3) and costs roughly $350 - 400 for the faster timings and $300 for the slower ones (2.5-4-4).

Why do they only compare the ram against each other, not against DDR400-DDR550? Wasn't that the point of this whole article?
After re-reading the conclusion I am still having trouble understanding what exactly the point of this article is. The article is called "DDR2 vs. DDR: Revenge Gained", (Sigh again with the grammar) yet I still don't see the 'benefits' of DDR2 yet.

1. DDR400 is approximately 25% cheaper, and DDR550 is comparable cost wise.
2. The high latencies (which have been improved) still make it inferior to DDR
3. Eliminating ONE of the main disadvantages of upgrading to a socket 775 board is hardly an endorsement
4. They never say that 3-3-3 timing DDR2-533 is faster than DDR-400, they just say it can now "challenge" it. That's another way for saying lose by 5-10%

Is this perhaps a copy of something written on Toms Hardware or was it emailed directly to you from someone at Intel?
[Posted by: orangefsh  | Date: 12/19/04 07:34:52 AM]

5. 
Oh oh! I have a better idea for an article title.

X-Bit Labs: Respect Lost
[Posted by: orangefsh  | Date: 12/19/04 07:37:52 AM]
+ expand thread (1 answer)

6. 
Note you'll need to run the OCZ 4200EB modules at 2.0v - the recommended default voltage to get the 3-2-2-8 timings up to 620mhz.

Just noted in the testing that you ran them @ 1.9.

The timings and voltages need to be manually set in the Bios, they do not come on the SPD that way, but they do run just fine when manually set.
[Posted by: Anemone  | Date: 12/19/04 10:52:44 AM]

7. 
I was going to add some things, but orangefsh pretty much summed it up for me. :)

This was a terrible "comparison". Don't attempt to review hardware, if you don't have a clue how. It is embaressing to watch.
[Posted by: SpinZero  | Date: 12/20/04 07:19:03 AM]

8. 



Spinzero... it is 'embarrassing' that you can not spell, it is "embarrassing" not embaressing

It is amazing how many replys to the articles on this site are IRONIC!.


In the article are there any spelling errors?. NO, and the title " DDR2 vs. DDR: Revenge Gained" May be 'twisted', yet, is this a better title?
" DDR2 vs. DDR: revenge is best served cold".
[Posted by: queuetrip  | Date: 12/21/04 02:59:31 PM]
+ expand thread (6 answers)

9. 
#8, you are actually going to try to defend the way this article was written?

I had to do a double take after i started reading it. I thought i must have clicked on a link to a Babblefish translation of some kind. Yikes!

"Some time is always necessary as an adaptation period during which the users are grieving over the good old past and the bad new present while the manufacturers are improving the parameters of their new products."

"It couldn’t but it can now!"

Punctuation - It's a word. Look it up. It is kind of important. Try throwing a comma in there every so often.

"The ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe is among such Socket 748 mainboards."

Ah, yes. The socket 748. Truly a rare but important member of the Intel family.

"The main question we’re going to answer is if the more progressive DDR2 SDRAM can lift the performance level of i915/i925-based systems to that of i875/i865-based computers."

And, if you can get beyond all the wonderful fact-checking and beautiful grammar, this is what we are left with. The discovery of whether or not Intel's latest technology is as fast as the technology they released 2 years ago. Truly, revenge has been gained!
[Posted by: jackson46  | Date: 12/22/04 06:34:01 AM]
+ expand thread (1 answer)

10. 
Hardware folks are nothing if not passionate about their opinions :p

So, to ask the question pointedly. Do folks agree that DDR2 is finally beginning to show some glimmers of being worthwhile? I don't mean now, with the higher cost factored in, but the products we are seeing, do they show 2005 could have some sincere promise?

Are their any guesses when we might see an integrated DDR2 memory controller on the A64? (I'd imagine that low timings, integrated controller, and high bandwidth would be quite fun on the A64)

Those are the thoughts I'm thinking...
[Posted by: Anemone  | Date: 12/23/04 10:04:06 AM]

11. 
Here's an interesting article comparing DDR / DDR2 / DDR3
http://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/ddr3/

-A few selected quotes from the article

"Whereas current DDR (I) is capable of running at 400 MHz data rate with one penalty cycle each for the Bank Activate (tRCD), the Read (CAS) delay and the Precharge Delay (tRP), that is, at 2:2:2 latency settings, DDR-II will incur three penalty cycles for each of the above mentioned parameters, and run at 4:4:4 at the same operating frequency."

"The numbers just mentioned only hold for Read accesses, on Writes, the situation is slightly worse. DDR (I) writes are executed at CL-1, that is, immediately after a write command is given and without any penalty cycles. In DDR-II, the Write CAS Delay is specified as Read latency minus 1, that is, a CL-4 module will run at a write latency of 3 clocks."

Opinion on seeing AMD giving the Athlon64 a DDR2 memory controller
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00701/
[Posted by: orangefsh  | Date: 12/24/04 04:00:59 AM]
+ expand thread (1 answer)

12. 
512MB of standard Cas 2.5 DDR400 is around $75.00. 512MB of DDR2-533 with Cas 3 is around $155. For the same level of performance, I'd go with DDR-I, but for the money I'd just go with an A64.

I also agree that X-bit needs an editor/proofreader who has English as their first language.
[Posted by: The Jedi  | Date: 12/24/04 02:13:09 PM]

13. 
I liked the article, and the point came through. Through the benchmarks of DDR2 at low latency it was as fast or faster than state of the art DDR1. If DDR2 evolves to support 667 MHz at similar latencies, it will be the best memory technology.

The performance gains from DDR2 at low latency, seen in the WinRAR benchmarks are quite impressive.

One thing, not in my consideration is price. I wouldn't pay twice as much for almost equal performance, which is also why I'm an AMD guy.
[Posted by: Esben  | Date: 12/25/04 10:02:57 AM]

14. 
Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Posted by: boo  | Date: 01/02/05 01:29:58 AM]

15. 
Great writeup!
[Posted by: eggs  | Date: 01/08/05 08:18:02 AM]

16. 
i'm running a barton 2500+ with 1 gig of ddr400.
My current clock cap is 200mhz fsb, due to the fact that my ddr memory chokes when pushed over its rated frequency.
Do you think i would experience a significant difference in clocking limitations if i upgraded to ddr2 ?
[Posted by: Its Me  | Date: 11/23/05 08:51:59 AM]

17. 
Ehm, My BH-5 memory is much faster DDR-2 in speed. Both in Latencys and bandwith.
They are at 270mhz now. I had 265mhz on them for a while and they got WAY more bandwith then those DDR-2 memorys.
Add another gb in read and you got my memorys.
Pff, DDR-2 isnt faster if you got good DDR memorys.
[Posted by: Tancoll  | Date: 12/17/05 03:53:43 PM]

18. 
U have written that in DDR2 four data can be transfered per clock. U r talking of data transfer from core toIO buffer or from IO buffer to memory controller? If u r talking about data transfer between IO buffer and memory controller then i think that data can be sent at rising egde and falling edge of clock only. Please tell me apart fron 4-bit prefetch how DDR2 is faster than DDR

Mymail ID:msuresh@gamebox.net
[Posted by: Pria  | Date: 02/27/06 06:21:41 AM]

19. 
DDR2 Sucks my dickity dick
[Posted by: DICKITY DICK  | Date: 07/12/06 11:40:02 PM]

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