X-bit labs

Started by: shogun | Date 04/25/06

Comments: 37 | Last Comment:  08/15/07

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1. There is a small mistake on the last page:
"positioned for the 4299 price segment"

Thank you. Corrected.

2. So what to buy if you got 600$ one GTX or 2 GT?
2 GT sems to outperform the GTX most of the time
(+1000p in 3Dmark 2005 etc.)
Guess you have to change fans on the GT cards.
But apart from that you really seem to be better of with the 2xGT.
Or have I missed something here?

3. Your article is worth nothing because you compare the wrong products.
Let me explain.
7900GT 256MB can be found for $299.
X1800XT 256MB can be found for $279.
X1800XT 512MB can be found for $299.

So you should compare 7900GT and X1800XT 512MB directly.

- X1800XT is faster 90% of the time
- X1800XT can run HDR and AA - that's really a disadvantage of the 7900GT, did you forget about that?
- X1800XT has 512MB

But those 3 points alone make the buy of an 7900GT worthless.
The only advantage is SLI but by the time you want a second card, nVidia won't sell the card anymore.
BTW the whole SLI/Crossfire thing is for idiots anyway.

I really don't understand people wanting the 7900GT so badly.

But your article is a standard Xbit article.
From start till end it's all about making nVidia look good. You probably do this without even noticing it.
You just don't want to admit it's a worse product.
Xbit = nVidia Fanboy and don't you say no.

I agree with you. I think that tom's hardware has a much better editor and testing team than xbit laabs.

But...

You have something to upsh yourself...It seems to me that you are an ATI 'Fan-Boy (or girl)'. Anyway, you should learn some manners and stop insulting random people... I know that the internet makes it possible through anonymizing what you say, but......

ATI Radeon X1800 XT 512MB has recommended retail price no less than $349.
Also, please make sure you re-read the article:

"The newcomer proved just great during our real-time test session. In most tasks it outperformed Radeon X1800 XL and in some of them it competed on equal terms with a more powerful Radeon X1800 XT. Of course, 24 TMUs it features helped a lot to achieve this success, because it resulted in higher fillrate – an important parameter for games rich in texturing samples. This feature combined with about 48W of power consumption (which is much lower than by GeForce 7800 GT and Radeon X1800 XL) and excellent overclocking potential give all every right to award GeForce 7900 GT with a title of the best $299 graphics card in the today’s market."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce7900gt_25.html

I read it all man and there's nothing to convince me otherwise.

Lowest prices i could find:
In the US: 7900GT 256MB $299 - X1800XT 256MB $279
In Holland: 7900GT 256MB €286 - X1800XT 256MB €299
In Germany: 7900GT 256MB €292 - X1800XT 256MB €291

Do you want even more? Do i need to check all the world for you before you get it?

And who cares about the recommended retail price? It's the market price that's important.

And yeah the X1800XT is faster, can run HDR+AA, has AVIVO, ... so yeah it runs hotter and uses more power, but for a good reason.
Buy an Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 for €16 and stop whining about the fan.
That fan is practically for free.

And i'm no fanboy. I owned most cards from both brands. I just buy what's best.
But a review website of your calibre with reporters should be OBJECTIVE.
I fucking hate it when i make a correct statement and then i'm called a fanboy.

I do not know any price-search engines for Holland and Germany, but the U.S. figures you provided are incorrect.

After checking with Dealtime and Pricewatch I've found that the GeForce 7900 GT is widely available at $310 - $330, whereas the Radeon X1800 XT usually cost over $400, but there 1 store (Newegg) who can sell for $300 and 2 stores (Amazon, TigerDirect) who can sell for $360.

So, an average buyer will easier find the GeForce 7900 GT that costs around $299.

http://www.preisroboter.de/

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31268

zipzoomfly has the x1800xt 512mb (msi rx1800xt-vt2d512e) for $334.99 (free shipping). they're cheapest 7900gt (asus en7900gt 256mb) is $349 (free shipping).

Regardless of what the price engines or the MSRP say, x1800xts are comparably priced with 7900gts. Thus, articles comparing the 2 can't explain away slower performance by saying "but 7900gts are so much cheaper."

4. i like school.

5. The G71 GPU is not speed binned. The reason you could only hit 560MHz core clock is due to the chip being undervolted on the GT.

Most of the 7900GTs being sold are clocked much higher than the ones you tested, so the scores you have posted here should certainly be considered worst-case for the card. The cards are also easily modified to MUCH higher performance levels.

My 3DMark scores on a single modified 7900GT (@700/1780, Zalman CF-700 fan) in High Quality mode and x2 3800 CPU (@2400Mhz, stock HSF) are 10829 for 3DM05 and 6191 for 3DM06.

I don't think you're going to find any X1800 cards doing that, unless you have a pair in Crossfire :-)

Most of the GeForce 7900 GT graphics being sold are clocked at exactly same level as the boards that X-bit labs have tested, so the scores we have posted should certainly be considered as typical for the card that has recommended price of $299.

5% of computer users do overclocking and maybe 5% of overclockers do modding of their components that involves boosting power supply circuitries, changing fans, etc.

You really think 5% of the people that buy computers overclock? It is WAY lower than that. I have no idea where you got that number from, but if you got it from a poll here, try to remember your readers do not represent a valid cross-section of people that buy computers. A lot of people buy computers and will never look at sites about computer hardware, in fact the vast majority. So the impression you get from your readers is not representative of the market as a whole.

Out of the 16 7900GTs listed at Newegg:

4 are at the clock speed you tested.
12 are clocked higher.
9 of them are at 500MHz or more.

So I stand by my original statement that your scores are worst case scenarios for this card.

The X1900GTs are going to be excellent competiton for the 7900GTs, but the X1800s are just dead end R520s being dumped to make room for the far superior R580s. If you HAVE to buy a 300 dollar video card today, get the 7900GT. If you can wait for a couple of weeks, the X1900GTs will be here, and then you'll have a 300 dollar ATi card worth owning. But it still won't be the wolf in sheep's clothing that the 7900GT is.

6. As always, very comprehensive review with many competing products. Great job!

However, the X1800XT is the peer competitor with the 7900GT at the $299 price point not the X1800XL. Newegg has the X1800XT 512 for 299 and a 256 version for 259 (after MIR). Not a fanboy for either side, I'll leave the performance assessments to the experts, but the price is easy to verify. This would change the conclusion significantly because you always assume the X1800XT is at the next higher price bracket and so not a fair comparison.

There are other issues to keep in mind, only OEM versions of X1800 XT 512 reach the 299US mark while full retail versions of 7900 GT are available at 299US with a nice Lifetime Warranty.

So a retail X1800 XT 512 309US with a decent warranty could be compared to the eVGA Retail Full Lifetime Warranty, with 500MHZ/1500MHZ enhanced clock rates for 319US...

As well the X1800 XT 512 gains quite a bit of performance from the 512MB of VRAM and is more sensitive to that change then the Geforce 7 Series, so the X1800 XT 256 will not give identical performance.

The recommended retail price for the Radeon X1800 XT 512MB is still higher than $299 at the moment and a single offering in the U.S. does not change the picture for the whole world.

Also, we consider such features as power consumption, single-slot/dual-slot cooling systems, etc. - those are important for $299 boards.

Nevertheless, the final judgement is up to the user and price in his/her region.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31279
please anton :)

I agree, power consumption and noise is a huge concern.

I'd like for you guys to review the best cards that run without fans and/or have under a specific power use.

I only buy video cards that use no fans, this is why I would like to see this type of review. Try listening to Mozart with a fan humming in the background. People do listen to music on their PCs a lot now. Buying an extremely expensive speaker setup and having a cheap fan humming in the background is unacceptable. Then, if they put out so much heat you have to use a fan, it has to be evacuated from the enclosure, needing another fan. It gets noisy fast. The same applies to watching TV and movies on a computer. A noisy computer ruins the experience.

7. Compared to ATI X1800 Series. Give me a break. Let's atleast stay on the same playing field.

8. Well, when it comes I have only 5 when it comes to favoring 7900GT over X1800XT. Where I live X180XTs are hard to find and cost some 70 to 110 bucks more, I like more the NV's drivers - more compatibility, stability, I currently run an X850XT Pe and have some serious driver issues, Act of War's Expansion locks very frequently, and lots of older games look strange - then, the 7900GT is quite a good overclocker, and the last, I might be wrong, the reviewer said that in some cases the ATI cards only simulate supersampling, and that's a hole lot of workload off the chip. Don't want to cry "Wolf" because I'm not sure of this, if someone could give some more info I would apreciate.
Not least, but fifth, it is highly probable that NV will do a software mod to their cards thru drivers to make them do FSAA+HDR, even it might bring down performance.
ATI drivers are a big detterant for me, but their good part is that they come out every month, and any issues might be adressed quickly.

Just as an ending line, with my previous card, an 6800GS, I was playing everythin from Unreal1 to FEAR and AOW Exp with no glitches. The X850XT issues are driver ones, since I've put my PC thru a 24H 3Dmark test with Prime95 torturing in background, and it is not an hardware issue. That makes me go back to NV, am I wrong?

AARGGHHH
once again, it is impossible for nvidia to run HDR+FSAA
its a hardware thing, not a software one
i like this site but i dont read the graphic card reviews anymore
they are to biased, its always nvidia who is the best, i read my graphic card reviews somewhere else altough i love this site
but their graphic card reviews SUCK

I don't see any bias here considering the X1800 XT seems to be faster at most settings in this review...

Regarding the HDR + FSAA issue it is very complicated.

Nvidia cannot run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + MSAA, that part is true. Which is used in FarCry, Serious Sam 2, dunno what else.
Nvidia can still run OpenEXR FP16 HDR + SSAA if the game codes for it like Age of Empires 3.
Nvidia can still run INT HDR + MSAA/SSAA, or any DX9 card for that matter in Half life 2 Lost Coast.

ATI cards can't do any form of SuperSampling AA that I know of outside of Crossfire where the compositing engine handles the Super Sample AA.

ATI's Adapative AA uses MSAA, unlike Nvidia's Transparency AA which uses SSAA or MSAA depending on user choice.

9. Did the 1.4V conductive pen Voltmod on a Asus 7900GT Top. Instead of getting 544/799 I got 641/850 (without changing cooler. waiting for the VF900).

Awesome card!!!

10. Just wanted to add that the real competitor of the 7900gt is the x1800xt. The x1800xt 256mb can be had for as low as $260, while the 512mb for $299.

In all tests, both perform neck to neck, but the x1800xt takes the win when it comes to high res and FSAA

11. Fantastic review! By far the best 7900GT review on the net. You guys leave NO stone unturned!

12. Folks need to understand how reviewing MUST work. You MUST review the stock card at MSRP because there are simply too many variables to take into account if you let in all the actual prices here and there and adding a cooler here and there and doing volt mods and overclocking and in this case and that case and with this temp and that temp. You have to draw the line somewhere and stock/MSRP is where it is drawn.

Ya'll are smart enough to make your own decision based on the review.

13. On the Oblivion page you're putting the graphs with X1800 XT but in the article you're speaking about X1800 XL being "a little faster than the GeForce 7900 GT in low resolutions".
Which one is right?

I have the feeling that you tested the XL and the graphs are just wrong, you don't have an XT tested here.

14. "This game was not tested in FSAA modes since HDR support is disabled even on ATI’s graphics cards then and the visuals quality degenerates greatly."

How much is Nvidia paying you people? You can be bothered to download Catalyst 6.3 but you can't be bothered to download the Chuck patch?

Please stop saying that HDR doesn't work with AA "even on ATi's X1000 cards" because it's misinformation to the extreme, or are you going to tell people that using the latest and most useful drivers is a bad idea?

15. The core actualy isn't one that didnt pass a frequency check. They are literaly the same core and same quality as teh GTX cores. The only difference is the voltage given to the core. I voltmoded mine to 1.4 volts and got 680 on the core. This card is hands down better then the GTX and 1800XT when a simple voltmod with conductive pen is done.

16. i have an XFX 7900 GT oc edition. it owns my 3dmark 05 was 8669.....PRO

17. Oblivion benchmarks -> http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page6.asp

18. If you buy these, BFG's version is suspect.
I bought one and it was basically DOA causing artifacts and frequent random crashes of the graphics.

The card runs way too hot once you play any games,

Anyway, I returned it for a swapover, and the second was only slightly better.

With the newest drivers released last week it seems to be somewhat stable now. I had to replace the standard cooling but to get any great benefit the cooling system was so big it took up a PCI slot by itself, so if you were to run SLI and only had the standard 6 PCI slots and a bigger than average case you wouldn't be able to plug anything else in.

But that's after a month of hell with 2 BFG 7900GT cards.....

19. Who made that card you tested?

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