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Discussion on Article:
Samsung SyncMaster SA850: World’s First Monitor on PLS Matrix

Started by: TomH513 | Date 05/31/11 04:47:53 AM
Comments: 260 | Last Comment:  09/25/16 04:45:40 AM

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1. 
Why run the LED backlight at only 180Hz? This makes it extremely annoying to look at for people who are sensitive to flicker (just like all the other LED monitors currently available).

Samsung, this is a chance to differentiate yourself and show everyone how backlighting can be improved. I would personally gladly accept any color shifts that occur in the LED backlight in order to run it in DC mode (no PWM and therefore no flickering with changing brightness).
0 0 [Posted by: TomH513  | Date: 05/31/11 04:47:53 AM]
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2. 
Why no mention of AdobeRGB? It's not that big a deal to encompass the gamut of sRGB, but those of us who do print work need to know how much A-RGB the monitor is capable of showing.

I appreciate your reviews because they are usually very complete & in-depth. I've purchased hardware in the past based on your evaluation (just got the Zalman CNPS11X based on your review).

This article falls short.
0 0 [Posted by: pmcwillie  | Date: 05/31/11 08:09:30 AM]
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3. 
A very informative, complete review. And for once, XBit Labs has a product 3 months before its release, not 3 months after.

The PLS matrix must still be too costly, otherwise, Samsung would release PLS-matrix monitors in the more competitive 23 and 24 inch class.
1 0 [Posted by: BernardP  | Date: 05/31/11 08:43:50 AM]
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4. 
i am very curious how samsung calculates "trees saved" from electricity savings...

And how do they even justify the concept? electricity generation creates pollution that affects many things... but trees are actually unharmed by it.
0 0 [Posted by: taltamir  | Date: 05/31/11 09:10:14 PM]
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5. 
I wonder if someone with decision power ever reads articles like this and considers it's conclusions.For a high end monitor they could have autodetection of grid frequency (50/60 Hz) and DC mode for LED backlight.Samsung could also use a better light diffuser and look for an improved placements of LEDs, because it's not a smartphone and 2mm in thickness would help.Overall a good review.Thanks!
0 0 [Posted by: mosu  | Date: 06/04/11 02:38:06 AM]
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Threre's no any reliable way to adjust LED brightness in DC mode. You'll get very low power efficiency and very narrow brightness adjustment range.

Samsung should increase switching frequency, 1 kHz should not be a problem, but DC mode absolutely is not an option.

Also, they promised to send me more refined sample soon, the one that will go into mass-production this summer. Yet they didn't tell what has been fixed in it.
0 0 [Posted by: Oleg Artamonov  | Date: 06/04/11 07:01:39 AM]
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6. 
*Still waiting for a 37-42" 1920x1200 panel of high color (non-TN) quality with low response times that does true 120Hz input/output for ghost-free Stereo3D..*

How many more years will it be? It's 2011 already.. 5 more years? 10?

If there are millions of "120Hz" 3DTV's out there, why can't the manufacturers implement support for true 120Hz input-output? Why can't there be one that's PC-oriented, that can do 1920x1200 rather than just 1080p? Goodness' sake!
1 0 [Posted by: Bo_Fox  | Date: 06/05/11 01:51:37 PM]
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7. 
A quite important thing is missing from this article (as like most articles - it's still better to left it out than publishing incorrect info on it, though): how many bits of _effective_ color handing and displaying precision the monitor achieves?

For starters, the 8 bits (or recently 10 bits) per component that's usually listed are a property of the panel itself. The electronincs of the monitors can raise it by a few bits utilizing certain, barely visible kinds of dithering. Most higher positioned monitors (Eizo, NEC, and most Dell, HP, etc.) do this.

It affects quality even if the input were only the usual 3x8 bits. F.ex. an all-8-bits monitor is going to show banding and colorshifing of certain shades if you modified its settings, because of digital aliasing and rounding errors.

Well, I have to tell most if not all Samsung monitors I got in my hands were all-8-bits ones, and not just those with a TN panel.
1 1 [Posted by: dezz  | Date: 06/05/11 04:18:04 PM]
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A 6-bit LCD will not display all the colors of a photograph because it is not physically possible. If you trick the brain into thinking there is another or new color by flashing it for a certain time, then it is possible with out being limited by the physics. Only very fast responsive LCD can do this.

Some computer monitors and TV includes higher precision electronics when capturing analog video. My computer monitor NEC Multisync EA231WMi includes 12-bit resolution for VGA. The quality of it closely resembles DVI-D. The precision electronics does not work with DVI-D, HDMI, and DisplayPort. These connections are more like monkey see, monkey do. Of course there might be some post processing.

If you are explaining about a 10-bit LCD panel, you will need to buy workstation video card and use software that supports 30-bit color. A 10-bit panel only helps when everything supports 30-bit color. When nothing does, you get the amount of colors the rest of us see on our computer monitors which is 24-bit color.

Color shifting only occurs when you do not know what you are doing while calibrating the monitor. Each screen is different how it is calibrated. Color banding occurs when the colors that you are using in a graphic can not be duplicated on a monitor. Color banding can be cause by poor post processing.
0 1 [Posted by: tecknurd  | Date: 06/06/11 12:08:32 AM]
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It seems you tried to outsmart me, without actually thinking about what I've explained. And you are wrong on several accounts.

TN panels (and some cheaper IPS recently) that are natively 6-bits per component use a method called FRC since ages to effectively add 2 more bits per component. Most IPS and VA monitors that are natively 8-bit per component does the same to have effectively 10 bits (and this time the changes are more subtle so much less noticeable). What's new with those new 10-bits panels that those are natively have 10 bits.

But as I said, I wasn't talking about this, but that most mid-to-high range monitors process and display images effectively at 10+ bits per component, using dithering for the latter. It's neccessary because without this the little changes to the displeyed tones would round itself to the 256 levels the 8-bits of precision allows, causing banding and (subtle but noticeable) decolorization of certain shades. I hope you can understand this already.

You can test it this way:
1. Run the EIZO Monitortest, go to page 21. It's a fine gradient. Use 256 levels, preferably white/gray or green.
2. Turn down the contrast (not brightness of backlight!) to half.

Now, just take a look how many levels you have now?

On an all-8-bits monitor it would halve the steps in the gradient as at 8 bits of precision you can only have 128 values low to mid, out of the original 256 of the full range. Get it?

But, what you see on a NEC EA231WMi (that I have, too)? The 256 levels remains, just darker! Voilá! If you look closer, you can see the dithering, as well. (More noticeable on darker shades.) You will get the same with many mid-to-high range monitors, despite their 8-bits panels.

Now, try it with the Samsung F2380 - which is a 24-bits one, I mean really an all-8-bits one... And I could tell some more, like this. (And, BTW, not even try it with a regular TN based one.)

It's also not true that one can have 10 bits/compontent only out of workstation video cards, as since the AMD HD5000 series the cards can send out 10 bits per component out of the 16 bits per component of the calibration LUT, in case the monitor can receive it, as well. (Sadly the 231WMi can't, but f.ex. the Dell U2410 can!) Just you cannot display an 30-bits image out of the _frame-buffer_. [Unless you deploy certain tricks - don't forget the workstation cards don't really have unique chips, they use the same as used on higher ranged PC videocards...]
1 1 [Posted by: dezz  | Date: 06/06/11 09:23:15 PM]
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8. 
I just purchased a Dell U2711 and really regret it. The Anti Glare Coating is killing me to look at. I am in the process of RMA'ing it due to its poor image quality displaying whites.

This monitor looks fantastic. I love that it has such a mild Anti Glare Coating.

Thank you for taking the photo's of the AG Coating in "your lab". It helped me decide to RMA my Dell U2711 because I now know what IS POSSIBLE with a AG coating.

Thanks
0 0 [Posted by: spinifex  | Date: 07/09/11 01:45:27 PM]
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9. 
So what are the better mainstream IPS monitors which doesn't have anti-glare grain? Or are glossy. Please tell.

dospam@gmail.com
0 0 [Posted by: aliquis  | Date: 09/21/11 08:17:21 PM]
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10. 
Will the wider-than-sRGB color gamut on this display yield over-saturated colors? I would like to use it for sRGB purposes only.
0 0 [Posted by: richard7  | Date: 09/21/11 08:46:15 PM]
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11. 
Black is unacceptable on this monitor.. everything is washed out and grey..
If you play games or watch movies on your monitors NEVER BUY THIS CRAP!!

Shame on you samsung... after the 245T you release this crap??

One thing for sure, All reviewers that give it good score have been paid by samsung..... in 2012 any new monitors should at least, once calibrated, measure a contrast over 1000:1.... most don't but it is a minimun for movie watching... actually the minimun would be 2000:1 or even 3000:1

AND Dell and HP should choke themselve with their stupid AG coating... on this the samsung is better but hey ... even if AG coating is good if the monitor have a contrast ratio of 300:1 hehehe soo bad...

THERE SHOULD BE A LAW STATING THAT manufacturers should state the REAL contrast ratio of their product and any product sold with less than that should refund on the fly or exchange on the fly by the one matching the marketed contrast ratio..

and f... your 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000:1 dynamic contrast bullshit

Also this monitor stupidly auto-stretch any 16:9 input to 16:10...and there is no setting to have 1x1 pixel matching without stretch... bravo, bravo samsung, well done research.
0 0 [Posted by: djsinae  | Date: 02/17/12 06:38:08 PM]
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0 0 [Posted by: lkh  | Date: 09/25/16 04:45:40 AM]
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