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Discussion on Article:
True Fusion: AMD A8-3800 APU Review

Started by: gamoniac | Date 06/30/11 04:06:32 AM
Comments: 26 | Last Comment:  04/12/12 03:28:26 PM

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1. 
Ilya,
Thanks much for the great, in-depth review. Yet another unbiased, awesome review from xbitlab - probably the best one on Llano that I have read. This is what keeps me coming back to Xbitlab.
8 2 [Posted by: gamoniac  | Date: 06/30/11 04:06:32 AM]
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2. 
gamoniac is right. Excellent review.
2 2 [Posted by: Pouria  | Date: 06/30/11 04:19:46 AM]
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3. 
Good review I respect test from Xbit,but where is test with A3850 (fastest Liano ), most of sites give review with them.
2 1 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 06/30/11 04:43:43 AM]
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4. 
I wonder what drivers did you use for intel graphics ?

The newer drivers show some performance increase in some games
http://communities.intel..../21735?wapkw=%28hd3000%29
1 0 [Posted by: maroon1  | Date: 06/30/11 12:39:51 PM]
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I wonder what drivers did you use for intel graphics ?


It's in the article.

Intel Chipset Driver 9.2.0.1030;
Intel Management Engine Driver 7.1.10.1065;
Intel Rapid Storage Technology 10.5.0.1027;
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 15.22.1.64.2361;
0 1 [Posted by: GavinT  | Date: 07/02/11 01:47:10 AM]
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LOL!!!!!!!!! What games?
1 0 [Posted by: PFX  | Date: 07/03/11 02:39:25 AM]
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5. 
Sandra GPGPU test APU shows great potential for Liano.AMD must materialize that potential.
3 2 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 06/30/11 03:24:24 PM]
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6. 
I like how Ilya does testing. I like that he chose A8-3800 unlike all other reviewers.
I like how he chooses the contesters. I see he understands what he does, unlike most of other reviewers.

This review clearly shows that desktop Llano is second not only to i3 but also to SB Pentiums in most of scenarios.
What are target clients of desktop Llanos?
I am even not sure that we'll see low-bin parts of Llano at all due to their higher production costs and lower performance even vs. old A. and P.

ITunes gives us the clue what Turbo can Llano reach when only two cores are loaded.
If we do the calc, using A. X4 630 as the baseline, we get 2.5GHz only. Not the big deal.
2 2 [Posted by: Azazel  | Date: 07/01/11 07:07:23 AM]
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7. 
You could have and you should have skip the SYSmark tests all the way. It's only good if you want to test Intel procs.
4 3 [Posted by: TAViX  | Date: 07/02/11 02:03:12 AM]
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And why is that?
0 1 [Posted by: cosminmcm  | Date: 07/02/11 06:55:10 AM]
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SYSmark is biased!
1 0 [Posted by: PFX  | Date: 08/10/11 03:30:25 PM]
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8. 
"However, after carefully weighing the pros and cons we found AMD’s arguments unconvincing"
Is there any article elaborating this in detail?

It's quite understandable that Intel is happy about not including graphics into sysmark12 and AMD isn't. But as both Intel and AMD now offer products with integrated graphics, wouldn't it make sense to include this? They are not pure CPUs anymore, so excluding the graphics part, even if there is no excessive use in office applications right now, seems to degrade the value of the product.

In order to show CPU performance through a pure CPU bottleneck by using an external high end graphics card, is a nice idea for benchmarking the cpu! However this scenario will not happen in reality. Who actually buys an APU with integrated entry level graphics, and by this, pays extra money for the extra die area consumed by the graphics system, then disables the very same and puts in a high end graphics card instead? So the benchmarks under these conditions will not have much practical value. However they do show that the 2007 microarchitecture of AMD is quite obsolete...

Using the 3800 model for the test was definitely better, since its TDP is more comparable with the competing i3 model.

In total good review! I like the CPU architecture comparison between Athlon and Liano.
1 1 [Posted by: tmold  | Date: 07/02/11 07:21:18 AM]
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9. 
AMD has reached the goal, with the APU Fusion you can play games even at 720 P. Intel cpu+gpu cant do that.End of the story.
4 3 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 07/03/11 12:43:04 AM]
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10. 
Awesome review!
3 1 [Posted by: PFX  | Date: 07/03/11 02:43:09 AM]
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11. 
Well it feels like I have been disappointed again by AMD, I have been buying their processors since the old Slot A days. But again the hype done by AMD has not delivered. I guess it is a good solution for OEMs like HP that want to produce a all in one system to a pricepoint. But for users wanting to upgrade and have already invested in a decent graphic card Llano will disappoint. Maybe things will change with Trinity, but I am sick of waiting for the "next one" so I am doing what I thought as unbelievable. Buying an Intel system.
Marty
3 5 [Posted by: marty14  | Date: 07/03/11 10:42:00 AM]
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Your disappointment is due to your own wrong expectation that Llano would be a performance part, its a mainstream part targeted at the mainstream crowd. If you want an AMD performance part you get a Phenom II or wait for the FX-x100 Series to be released.

For quite a while now AMD has delivered the best bang-for-buck performance and it would seem that the Llano series will continue that tradition, but enthusiasts know that if you want performance and don't mind the premium you go for Intel.
5 2 [Posted by: Dani  | Date: 07/03/11 03:10:18 PM]
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How many tiers of amd crap do we have to put up with hearing about ?
If this or that tier is crap, you lower the cost and claim the amd crap below it is the cost saver, or alternately, you choose a higher overall price, more amd crap that doesn't cut it, and claim some imaginary cost savings.
I am so sick of hearing that amd's crap is crap at every price point, but saves you money....
Add in the pathetic $5, $10, $15, $20, or $25 in any crap amd tier and get the screaming demon amd promised and has never, ever delivered.
1 3 [Posted by: SiliconDoc  | Date: 07/05/11 01:23:12 AM]
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first athlon, athlon xp, athlon 64, even brazo, all of them beat the pants of intel.

the only reason intel kept its marketshare is because they played dirty and abused their monopoly all the OEM's, and forced them to buy their crap, and only their crap.
they dont deserve to get my money, ever.

in terms of the crap that intel sells to OEM's (i3, pentium, celeron) Llano is quit a bit better at doing the things OEM buyers actually do. and now that they can actually sell to OEM's unrestricted because intel got caught and shamed I'm confidant it will actually do quit well.

also you are very mistaken about the whole of the PC market. llano has plenty of performance for 90+% of the human population. low en mid range cpu's sell in far far greater numbers then even i5's, let alone i7's.
5 1 [Posted by: Countess  | Date: 07/06/11 07:06:59 AM]
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show the post
0 4 [Posted by: SiliconDoc  | Date: 07/05/11 01:31:34 AM]
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12. 
A while back one of amd's catalyst makers was bragging how they just offloaded work to the cpu to get their catalyst performance increases in their latest release.
Well, this llaMo of course, shows what one lame trick can do to another.
It appears that more and more often, cpu speed is the kingmaker in gaming frame rates, and as the catalyst maker publicly bragged - there is a reason for that.
Enter llaMO.
Newer drivers...
More craPo.
0 2 [Posted by: SiliconDoc  | Date: 07/05/11 01:36:27 AM]
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actually CPU speed in most cases is near irrelevant. you only get that view because CPU game benchmarks almost always use low unrealistic settings with very high-end videocards.
the few exceptions are strategy games, where FPS's aren't important.
3 2 [Posted by: Countess  | Date: 07/06/11 07:17:19 AM]
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13. 
I think this is probably one of the best review I ever saw from Xbit lbas in recent years. Great job Ilya Gavrichenkov!

But I wanna add some points:
1. The "locomotive of evolution" for a truly APU is Sony. Date back in 2000 with the Emotional Engine CPU in PS2, the VPU0 inside is actually an special "DSP" tailor made for executing SIMD.
2. The same concept was further extended by IBM, Toshiba and Sony. The Cell BE used in PS3 as well as IBM Blade Servers has 8 seperated "shader cores" (They called them SPE) for SIMD execution. In PS3, the Physics, sound and video processing is all handled by these SPEs.
3. In PS3's story, we can see back in 2006 when the machine was launched, nearly no application can deliver the promised performance. After 5 yrs today, we can see the actual benifit for the concept. Similar concept is also employed in certain ARM processors in recent years already.

The hybird programming require a completely different programming concept from traditional one. For example, In Cell BE and PS3, we leart that we have to make use the general purpose processor to pump up with SPE with work load data. Lucky, after a few years of development, there is a number of programmers, especially from the embedded and console region, started to familiar with hybird achitecture programming. I think currently it's a good time frame for AMD to push the hybrid processor idea. However she still may need a couple of years for the PC software developers to catch up in order to deliver the full potential of the concept.
2 2 [Posted by: RoyalHorse  | Date: 07/05/11 01:57:08 AM]
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14. 
I CAN PLAY STARCRAFT 2 WITHOUT SHELLING OUT A 100$ MORE ON A GRAPHICS CARD!!! :D :D :D
0 0 [Posted by: PFX  | Date: 08/10/11 03:31:23 PM]
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15. 
I want to play games. Lots of games @1280x1024 resolution.
I have a Gigabyte A75M-S2V motherboard. I want to buy a CPU.

1. A8-3850 and an additional Gigabyte ATI HD6850 or ATI 6670, i will benefit Crossfire?

2. AMD Athlon II x4 631 with Gigabyte ATI HD6850.

Which one will perform better ?
0 0 [Posted by: bnn1  | Date: 01/19/12 04:34:43 AM]
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16. 
I want to play games. Lots of games @1280x1024 resolution.
I have a Gigabyte A75M-S2V motherboard. I want to buy a CPU.

1. A8-3850 and an additional Gigabyte ATI HD6850 or ATI 6670, i will benefit Crossfire?

2. AMD Athlon II x4 631 with Gigabyte ATI HD6850.

Which one will perform better ?
0 0 [Posted by: bnn1  | Date: 01/19/12 04:34:46 AM]
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17. 
VERY poor choice of using SYSmark from BAPCo!
How could you use it when 3 major companies leave over the same allegations?

AMD, Nvidia, and VIA have all left due to unfair testing bias which doesn't represent real-world app usage.

If you truly look at what MAJORITY of people are using their PC for these days, it's not scanning documents or compressing files for hours on ends as BAPCo thinks, rather people are mostly browsing the web, spending massive amounts of time watching YouTube and other social video sites. And working with cloud-based (Javascript-heavy) online apps such as Gmail, Facebook, etc.

Nonetheless, thanks for testing the A8-3800 rather than the 3850 like most others, and thanks for an overall good benchmark, particularly power consumption figures.
0 0 [Posted by: a1020471  | Date: 03/04/12 09:12:29 AM]
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