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Discussion on Article:
Microsoft Xbox Next and PlayStation 4 to Feature Eight-Core AMD Jaguar Microprocessors – Report.
Personally i would expect that shift to be made, but it´s not something i would place a bet on.
optimizing (finally!) for more parallel execution is clearly the future, and it was long due late - a shame that existing architectures advantages - eg. more cores, 64-bit cpus etc are not utilized more, yet they are available for years...
Sounds like the reason they are going for a 8-core Jaguar are lower power consumption and cost savings, not performance. It's basically a tablet/low-end laptop CPU, not a performance CPU. An A10-5800K or Richland quad would have been faster and easier to optimize for 4 cores.
Sony is waiting to see what xbox 720 brings out to see what hardware it has so it can try to out due it.
Maybe we will see a Richland apu in the ps4 as from reported sony is going with a fusion based apu but as of yet no one knows anything further then that. if the ps4 goes with richland that would def make faster then xbox 720 jaguar apu.
Soon, normal laptops with decent APU will be able to run the latest Xbox Next/PS4 ported PC games.
Looks like the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft will supposedly share similar CPUs/architecture that will make cross-platform development much easier. The 720 is essentially a Windows PC, and the PS4 is basically a Linux PC. This way, developers could port things easily from the 720, PC, PS4 and SteamBox. I am looking forward to decently ported console games on the PC now that Xbox Next / PS4 will have x86 CPUs and hardware parts that are very similar to PC components.
A Xenon core at 3.2ghz is slower than one Pentium 4 3.2ghz core. In the context of modern CPUs, developers have estimated the IPC of the Xenon at just 1/4 of a Core i7. A Jaguar core at 1.6Ghz is going to be faster than a Xenon at 3.2ghz, not slower like you are suggesting.
You are comparing an in-order Xenon to out of order Jaguar with 128-bit floating point and 256-bit AVX instructions. If they code to take advantage of AVX, the CPU will cream the Xenon. Even without it, it will trounce it.
The entire Xenon 360 CPU is only 70-85% as fast as just 1 core of 1st generation i7:
You are giving Xenon way too much credit. A 2.13ghz Core 2 Duo was 50-70% faster in games compared to G5-based IBM PowerPC CPUs that Apple replaced at the time. Xenon is very similar to the G5 PowerPC architecture. A Jaguar is a lot closer in IPC to Core 2 Duo, and you are getting 8 of those cores with updated modern instructions that exponentially increase throughput, plus out of order architecture. It will mop the floor with the tri-core Xenon.
Did you ever play Dark Souls on Xbox 360/PS3? It's a 15 fps chugfest in Blightown (heavily CPU limited area), despite the game rendering at just 1024x720.
Athlon X4 620 2.6ghz can maintain 30 fps minimum at 2560x1600:
Sorry, but the CPUs in PS360 are slow and always have been. The key reason games run well on those consoles are graphical short-cuts (rendering at 20-30 fps, no DX11 effects, low resolution textures, texture pop-in, rendering games at low resolution like Black Ops 2 at 880x720 or Uncharted 3 at 896x504) and the fact that developers spend years coding directly to the metal (no API/OS overhead) and optimizing for their outdated hardware.
Intel Core 2 Duo T5470 1600mhz = 1365 3DMark06
Jaguar has a >15% increase in IPC over Bobcat. (0.95 --> 1.10 or 16% increase in IPC)
1030 * 1.16 IPC increase => 1195.
That's 88% of the IPC of the Core 2 Duo or 1.88x the IPC of Pentium 4, and Pentium 4 IPC > Xenon! Your 3.2ghz Xenon core would not even be as fast as a single 1.6Ghz Jaguar core and the Xenon has just 3 of those vs. 8 Jaguar cores. Your math doesn't add up.
You are saying that Jaguar's IPC is "not even close" to C2D? 88% looks close enough. You didn't even take into account new instructions it's getting like 256-bit AVX, etc. Also, that's just 15% IPC increase in general apps, not games. Jaguar doubles the FP pipe from 64-bit to 128-bit for one pass SSE execution. Gaming performance will improve.
Also, these are just rumored specs, not confirmed. Either way, what you are saying makes little sense - Sony and MS would not replace the CPUs in Xbox 360/PS3 with slower CPUs. That would make it impossible to make games next generation on their consoles and defeat the purpose of adding any next generation GPUs too because the consoles would be completely CPU limited. So even if we ignore all the specs for a second, what you are saying is not even logical. With PS4 rumored to feature a GCN with 18 Compute Units (1152 Stream Processors), clocked at 800mhz, the performance of 1.84 Tflops puts it similar to HD7850 2GB. The engineers at Sony wouldn't be stupid to pair an HD7850 GPU with a CPU that's barely as fast (or as you are implying slower) than Xbox 360's Xenon/Cell. Sorry TA152H, your logic doesn't add up.
Like I said, the CPU in Xbox 360/PS3 can't even hold FPS at 30 in Blighttown at 1024x720 resolution, while a lowly dual-core X2 620 2.6ghz manages 30 fps at 2560x1600. That tells you right there how garbage the CPUs are in current consoles. Obviously no one is expecting Core i7 4770K in a PS4 but whatever CPU they go with, it will mop the floor with the Cell on all real world metrics that matter for games.
So we'd have an 8-core Jaguar at 1.6ghz with all cores utilized being:
E-450 1030 3DMark06 * 1.15 * 4 times as many cores = 4738.
Obviously there is no perfect core scaling but a Core i5 2500K scores 5853. I am telling you an 8-core Jaguar would destroy a 3-core Xenon.
You gotta consider that once you are talking about next generation DX11 games, up the resolution from 880x720-1280x720 of most PS360 games, add anti-aliasing, the workload will almost entirely shift to the GPU. They could use a slightly downclocked Bulldozer or Vishera to keep power consumption in check.
Given that any Intel i5/i7 is out of the question due to Intel's cost/margins, Bulldozer/Vishera would actually be the second best possible processor to use in a console long-term. They could play around with Turbo (say when 2 of 4 modules are active, it could Turbo to 4.0ghz and when 4 modules are used, clocks are limited to 2.8-3.0ghz or something). Even a 2.8-3.0ghz Bulldozer/Vishera CPU choice would be a lot better than any IBM CPU or an 8 core Jaguar.
YLOD was related to Nvidia's infamous bump-gate scandal when they decided to cut costs and use lead-free solder. As the GPU would heat and cool, over time, cracks/fissures in the soldering would appear and the GPU would lose signal with the motherboard at the ball soldering contact points. This is why you can "revive" the PS3 temporarily with a thermal heat gun across the GPU/motherboard. Hence to fix the PS4 YLOD you have to 'reball' the RSX GPU with new solder.
Again, neither of these issues were caused by high power consumption but due cost cutting/use of low quality components. This is no different than GeForce 8 cards eventually dying anyway due to bumpgate solder fissures (YLOD) or mounting a cooler incorrectly on a 50W GPU and it fries when you power the system on (RROD).
You know when you can cool 2 GTX680s in a GTX690 with its near 300W of power usage in such a small space, that it's doable if you are willing to pay the $ for a high-end cooling system parts. A 95W CPU/APU and a 100W HD7970M would have been perfectly adequate in terms of cooling them in a console. You can even fit a GTX660Ti/670 with a Core i7 2600K inside a chassis the size of original PS3 -- Alienware X51.
Seems like the primary reason they are going with low-power 8-core Jaguar CPU instead of Trinity / Richland APU is for cost cutting reasons.
At least the PC ported games won't suffer as much from dumb-downed AI 8GB vs 512MB. The x86 processor helps in this respect also. Even with an SSD, consoles will never support mods and you'll have to spend a fortune on games.
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