The initial rumors were all that the ps4 would have bulldozer, instead they both have jaguar, and the graphics will be determined significantly by the thermal and power envelope each chip is allowed.

But guess what ck, Intel don't do graphics. And Nvidia solutions were evidently not as good. So stop moaning. It's 2013 in the midst of The Great Recession.

What does intel have anything to do with this conversation? You are so pro amd you have to bring up amd vs intel in every article?

Initial articles claiming the ps4 was higher powered then the future xbox were based on the belief that the ps4 would be based on bulldozer, which is a more powerfull cpu then jaguar. Both will infact be based on jaguar most likely. I have not said anything against the cpu choice of either console, all I have said is that there is a lot less evidence that the PS4 will be significantly more powerfull then the future xbox, since they both appear to use the same cpu, and graphics will most likely be limited more by thermal and power concerns then the architecture / layout chosen.

it's a custom 8 core jaguar cpu. bulldozer cpu's have a high tdp rating. So even though it won't be as powerful as an fx 8350 in terms of multi-threading performance it will be a decent cpu for consoles. As for the gpu that's where the xbox 720 and ps4 will seeprate themselves.the ps4's gpu will be 1.84TFLOPS the xbox 720 gpu will be 768GFLOPS.

There is tight control over the details on the next gen console market. Its the reason why there were varying degrees of rumors. From that alone it should have been obvious not to set expectations as all the rumors are so different.

@Cashkennedy - Please excuse me but after reading your post beginning thread number 2, it seemed you were having a thinly veiled swipe at AMD's top and newest technology that Sony has selected. But certainly, what I would like to convey is that everything is being done to a price at the moment. We are not in the excesses of 1986 or 2006. Design choice will come down essentially to parts cost vs reasonable performance, not how out-rightly kickass it is. In that regard Nintendo, Sony, and MS can all be defended. Am I pro AMD? Unashamedly and on principle. Nevertheless, I try to balance my views. In the end I want the truth to prevail. I certainly don't want a situation like the Emperor's New Clothes. AMD deserves and needs timely criticism when they stuff up. My bugbears are their crap marketing (poor name choices and fragmented products) and poor execution. In regards to this console, it looks like it has the goods. It needs to run as cool as possible as people normally place them inside poorly ventilated cabinets on which TV's sit.

Apology accepted. I have had AMD / ATI graphics cards only for the last 10 years, so I give AMD a pretty fair accessment, but that doesnt mean I ignore the fact that they perform much worse in single threaded tasks, and have higher power consumptions vs equivalent performance intel cpus. I also agree they have some very bad marketing / naming ideas.

I dont expect them to make something excesive/expensive, I just dont think we should not make conclusions about the next xbox based on its rumored shader count, as I think both consoles will be limited by the 28nm process (which isnt going away for a while) and a TDP that is reasonable for a console (110w ?).

I think jaguar is a great product for entry level notebooks and possibly tablets, Im no expert on game design, but im surprised how often it is said that jaguar will be great for consoles, as its single thread performance (which is very important for games) is not very impressive. I do realize that FP units are not crucial for gaming though, and that a well tuned game / OS will make better use of the 2/1 architecture then windows.

Sony said it so it's official. Maybe the post was prelaunch but what the gaming community is waiting now is what does Microsoft has to answer to this machine. I guess (and has been reported) the new xbox will be very similar with also a Jaguar CPU on it and very similar graphic card. What will differentiate them hardwarewise are other components complementing CPU and GPU that will be tailored to what that company is trying to deliver like the instaplay chip Sony will use : http://www.joystiq.com/20...es-as-theyre-downloading/
which, with all those cores, could be done in software.

Anyways,

Like it has been since the dinosaurs, it will come down to which exclusive content you cant live without. Love Mario? then that Wii U will have to do or else you are SoL.

Childish.

Yes its childish to not rush out to buy a new product that I already have something better then. Its deffinetly not childish to post comments on forums that people are childish. Children never call people names.

Consoles are about content. No matter what PC you have, you will not be able to play an Uncharted or God of War on any other thing than a Sony machine.

Those games were most likely made on high end pc's using SDK from Sony! There is no reason why those games wouldn't run on way better hardware, It's just that they like to have "exclusive content" to sell that console.
In other words marketing bullshit!

Check this out ozegamer. You can preorder a Sony PS4 at EB Games for $900. They wouldn't know the real price yet so they're obviously covering their bases to the max whilst getting some self-promotion in the media at the same time. Cheeky devils.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/...-guessing-899-australian/

OMG $900 for a console, That's now approaching the price of a cheap entry level pc. Just heard it can't handle 4k games either, So it's not exactly future proof when the tv's drop in price over next few years. I will stick to the pc and put that $900 towards a high end video card or two for that matter!
Think I payed about $700 for PS3 from memory on 1st day release, $200 more PS4 is kind of pushing it, Especially for the younger crowd out there still at school.
Then again you could also say it's a good thing for us pc gamers, The console is getting expensive so maybe a better investment for parents would be a pc so they can do homework and play games.

$900 cheap entry level PC? Seriously, I can deck out a machine with high end 750W power supplies, ASUS Sabertooth motherboard, Radeon HD 7950, 8GB of 2133Mhz RAM, 2TB HDD, etc. with just 900$. You call that low end?

thats a bit hypocritical you say you don't rush out and buy a new product yet you have the most recent top of the line gpu.

@Cashkennedy - now you've read me wrong. I wrote "childish" as in your comment. I didn't call you anything. I only reserve name calling for the former jmlxg and avon hardcore trolls. It's childish because your post drips with sarcasm and I reckon you don't work inside the industry and therefore don't know how and why these design decisions were made based on factors like price, contracts, chip fabrication production, engineering integration, software gaming IDE's, etc. If you do know, please write an article for Xbit to enlighten us. Until then, stop taking cheap shots. There is nothing wrong with the technology being employed inside PS4.

Nope, I can tell you now, think of it as two Kabinis on the same die, only customized in a grouping that is customer specific. We are taking real 8 Jaguar cores not marketing spin of X x Y = z logic units.

You might be mixing things up with the bulldozer family of chips that share functional units apart from integer blocks.

To get a better idea read this overview here:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/n...r_Micro_Architecture.html

U wish it was bulldozer. It's jaguar which is a beefed up bobcat.

this is inocrrect the custom jaguar apu has 8 true cores the lack of L3 cache allows it to have 8 cores on the die.

Hey Steel, may I know which site reported the "lack of L2" cache on the PS4 jaguar cores?

i meant no l3 cache.

Ah ok so it was a typo then.

there is a difference between ddr and GDDR, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 but is optimised for bandwidth and is much wider. so these APU chips will contain a GDDR controller for bout the GPU and CPU.

They have a GDDR5 PHY on die.

The unification is also part of Unified Memory for CPU and GPU by 2013 initiative as part of HSA announced in early 2012.

Yep, HSA is going to go a long way to tablet and laptop perf and perf / watt.

AMD reckons x5 performance for HSA. But it's a maturing technology that is still 3 to 5 years away from starting to really change the game. Big contracts like this certainly help. But they need much more. They need to get the likes of Apple or Samsung to integrate their APUs en mass to get the party started.