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Discussion on Article:
Intel Core i7-4770K CPU Review. Intel Haswell for Desktops: Ruin of Our Hopes?

Started by: turtle | Date 06/01/13 12:36:47 PM
Comments: 68 | Last Comment:  01/07/17 08:46:17 AM

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Appreciate this article, one of the few that actually looks at this product launch for what it's supposed to be (a performance-level enthusiast chip) and not the just the architecture as it pertains to mobile.

It's odd, with all the reviews out there seemingly reaching the same consensus in terms of overclocking/heat/power, this is one of the only ones I've seen that takes Intel to task for it while expounding how the shortfalls make upgrading from even SB questionably worth wild. Disappointment is in the air, but few others seemed to really want to come out and say it.

Good work, Ilya.
11 0 [Posted by: turtle  | Date: 06/01/13 12:36:47 PM]

Do different processors deliver the same actual amount of work (AVX throughput?) under 100% Load test of LinX-AVX utility? Don’t we need to normalize the power consumption for equal-work? Additional 30W for nothing (if it is the case) is horrible. If it is for getting more work done, it is a different thing.
4 0 [Posted by: xbitrocks  | Date: 06/01/13 01:25:35 PM]

Sandy Bridge overclockt to 4.8ghz, Ivy Bridge to 4.6ghz and Haswell to 4.4ghz. Each one get 10% arhitectural speed improvement. Hm , I dont know what to say...
4 1 [Posted by: kingpin  | Date: 06/01/13 01:53:10 PM]

I was predicting a while ago that integrating the voltage regulator was going to make this chip run hot. Not to say I told you so, but....
5 2 [Posted by: AnonymousGuy  | Date: 06/01/13 04:40:52 PM]

So I think I stick with IB a little while. Let's see what APU+GDDR5 GPU offer.

This is your best chance Amd' Fanpops.
1 1 [Posted by: jpunk  | Date: 06/01/13 06:57:27 PM]
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No GDDR5 on Kaveri. Given it was supposedly going to be clocked around 3200-3400mhz (incredibly slow for GDDR5 but obviously incredibly fast for DDR3) it probably just means the gpu will be less potent at stock and use less power than we thought (barring them using a different implementation to get more bandwidth).

That said, if they were planning having more shader processors/higher clocks (or even truly supporting overclocking) in Kaveri without resorting to getting more bw out of their current implementation, those hopes likely went down the tube. There's a good chance Kaveri will only be as good (on the gpu side) as the amount of money you're willing to spend on fast ddr3...which sucks.

I hate to come across as the apologist, but this might be for the best (as they may tighten their designs up). Also, a solution has to be coming at some point once we clear the process hurdle to allow even a larger/more-efficient gpu (I have my hopes set on a 7790-like APU) that will surpass the requirements of this odd middle-ground (too fast for ddr3, too slow for the restrive properties of gddr5 implementations) and that should coincide better with faster/cheaper/higher-density GDDR5/6 or DDR4.
2 1 [Posted by: turtle  | Date: 06/02/13 03:38:32 PM]

I really enjoyed the article.

The only report I have read that grasps what Intel does and does not achieve with the new launch.

You call it as (the evidence and) you see it!

Great stuff, Ilya.
3 0 [Posted by: Thorolf  | Date: 06/01/13 07:04:27 PM]

With no need for higher performance required by the O/S's and the market is not in the mood for B/S from the Win-Tel consortium. It now seems both of them have lost their way. At least Intel have had a sort of management shake-up.
0 1 [Posted by: tedstoy  | Date: 06/01/13 08:12:36 PM]

this wasn't surprising for months we heard that Haswell was going to be a minor upgrade on the cpu side of things, but intel put a lot of its focus on the mobile battery life sector of Haswell, more then anything else this time around. So while I wasn't expecting big gains performance wise from Haswell over Ivy Bridge. I am expecting big gains from the battery life side of things over Ivy Bridge since that was intels main focus with Haswell.
0 0 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 06/01/13 09:18:44 PM]

Great review and straight to the point! Nonetheless, despite the fact that Haswell didn't deliver the performance jump I was hoping for, I am surprised to see how close the low-end HD4600 gets to Trinity APU's HD7660D in terms of graphic performance. Let's hope that the red team also has something up their sleeve during Kaveri's release later this year.
1 1 [Posted by: gamoniac  | Date: 06/01/13 10:53:19 PM]
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You mean in a few days, and it's a monumental release. Much like the consoles, it is a HSA APU. The age of traditional CPUs are coming to an end, and the future of HSA APUs are here to bring highly parallel computing to the masses.
2 1 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 06/01/13 11:00:07 PM]
You are thinking Kabini and Tamesh, which are pretty exciting themselves, but the higher-end Kaveri won't arrive till late Q3 at the earliest.
1 0 [Posted by: gamoniac  | Date: 06/01/13 11:09:06 PM]
richalnd won't have hsa karveri will though.
2 0 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 06/01/13 11:40:41 PM]

I don't understand why the top end Intel $320 4770k is being compared to the budget $100 AMD A10-5800K in the benchmarks here and on other sites?
2 3 [Posted by: tom31337  | Date: 06/02/13 01:51:06 AM]
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Cause its the only current available Fastest AMD APU in the Market.

4 1 [Posted by: kailrusha  | Date: 06/02/13 05:12:04 AM]

So far pretty much every review has confirmed Haswell to be a disappointment as it brings almost no improvement in CPU performance over IB which was a marginal improvement over SB. So two generations later Intel has basically only achieved lower power consumption, which while nice for portable devices, doesn't mean squat to the majority of PC consumers.

While Intel has improved their GPU in Haswell it's still two generations behind AMDs and AMD is ramping their CPU performance in APUs with a big jump to come with Kavari. With Intel's absurd pricing and convoluted APU designs, AMD will benefit nicely from Haswell and Intel's mistakes. Haswell is all good for AMD and consumers.
3 5 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 06/02/13 10:00:13 AM]
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I have you seen the review on Intel Iris Pro. perform better than A10 5800K.

But the price is 300 dollars compare to AMD APU, and im sure Kaveri will win in GPU performance again.
2 0 [Posted by: kailrusha  | Date: 06/02/13 03:31:08 PM]
I am an AMD fan, but it is indisputable that Intel's CPU and thermal performance is way ahead of AMD already. I, for one, am glad to see that they further improve thermal and graphic performance in the mobile area.

Based on other Intel IRIS HD5200 reviews, Intel integrated GPU is no longer two generations behind AMD. In fact, they are much faster than AMD's HD6770D.

Again, I like AMD, but I do not wish Intel to perform badly either. The only way AMD can get out of the slump is to make better CPU/APU.

I do agree that Haswell's pricing is a bit high, but that's been Intel's prerogative as the segment leader. We the consumers vote with our wallets. Let's hope AMD's Kaveri will bring some surprises to the table.
3 1 [Posted by: gamoniac  | Date: 06/02/13 08:35:27 PM]

Funny fact: some websites are asking for over $350 for an Intel 2600k, when I've paid $306 delivered 2 years ago. ($387 on TigerDirect, $326 NCIX)

First time I ever experienced hardware gaining value; and this might actually go higher now that I've read the review.

Thank you so much Intel!!!
2 0 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 06/03/13 06:12:19 AM]
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I can assure you your 2600k is losing value. On eBay they're only selling for ~$210-$220, and that number is going to go down as the market gets flooded with used Ivy Bridge cpu's.

CPUs only go up in value when they're the last in the socket generation and provide an upgrade path for people who bought the first in a socket generation.
1 0 [Posted by: AnonymousGuy  | Date: 06/03/13 01:10:16 PM]

could the higher temperature be because of an even worse TIM under the heat spreader ?
1 1 [Posted by: massau  | Date: 06/03/13 01:52:59 PM]

What a disappointment. This is what happens in the absence of significant performance competition from a competitor.
3 0 [Posted by: DivideOverflow  | Date: 06/03/13 11:04:12 PM]

Not really been interested in desktop chips for a while, it doesn't look like next-gen consoles will push performance onwards either - though it might mean we go 8-core mainstream earlier.

What I want to see though, are the laptop reviews. Can a Haswell-Iris chip get rid of the need for a separate graphics chip for any sort of gaming?
1 0 [Posted by: hahnchen  | Date: 06/04/13 05:25:58 AM]
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0 0 [Posted by: Bartolengue Dengue  | Date: 06/05/13 09:24:34 AM]

For such modest percentage gain, and 90 percent of the money in your wallet, Haswell gives such little graphics performence increase, compared to an APU that costs about 1/3 of the price!
Could there be a better use for all that GPU real estate on the Haswell die, maybe a few more cores! A few more cores, plus an AMD or Nvidia descrete GPU, for the desktop, and maybe throw in a few Mobile offerings as well! Intel integrated graphics, too little too late, at TOO much price!
3 0 [Posted by: BigChiefRunAmok  | Date: 06/04/13 06:56:19 AM]

This is not worth upgrading to, unless you have the first i7 generation or lower.
0 0 [Posted by: TAViX  | Date: 06/06/13 03:05:33 AM]

Intel do have more powerful processors such as 8-cores with 4-channel memory and better bus performance, a few more etxensions added as well, sadly they are all branded Xeon and are available only at skyrocketed prices ...

AMD made it easy for Intel when they quit the performance race.
1 0 [Posted by: xeizo  | Date: 06/06/13 07:59:39 AM]

A few points to make:

In a very real way, Intel only makes two CPU products - the Atom based stuff at the very low power/low end, and then the mainstream line. There is only on basic "core" - sometimes there are 1,2, 4, 6 or even 8 cores (in some Xeons) and they vary the cache, turn hyper threading on or off, turn turbo boost on or off and thus generate a huge number of flavors, but at the base... there is only one core. Intel is really trying to stretch that one basic design maybe a bit too far?

You can design for speed or low power, but when opimizing speed paths it really is a very either or choice in cpus. Merom for the laptop line in the 2005 era s needed extraordinary measures to get much past 2.5 ghz, but when they opened up the power envelope and optimized for speed the C2Ds hit a bit under 4 ghz pretty much with ease...

We are (alledgedly) going to get 6 watt haswels, and maybe that is just too big a range to do with one basic design?

That being said, it could also just be early steppings as well.... Intel usually finds a couple hundred mhz between early production and late steppings as well... Remember the "E" stepping C2Ds
0 0 [Posted by: The Vorlon  | Date: 06/11/13 09:25:34 PM]

Err... The first day of summer is June 21st. Unless you're Icelandic, then it's April 18th...
0 0 [Posted by: hedron  | Date: 06/14/13 07:33:54 PM]

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