X-bit labs Community

[psycho_mccrazy]

Alrighty then

Let me come to the point. Like i said in the other thread, I am planning to build an SLR system in the moderately distant future. It will have a full-frame sensor body, a flash, and ofcourse the most important things Lenses.

So now, the first question I ask is whether to rely primarily on prime (fixed focal length) lenses or zoom along with zoom lenses.

talking canons, say a set of 35/f2, 50/f1.4, 85/f1.8, 100/f2

OR

a set of 24-70/f2.8 L & 70-200/f2.8 L

The 100-400/f4.5-5.6 IS L will probably be added to both kits for i am a tele-nut

the primes will give me lots and lots of aperture, but the zooms will be much more handy in framing subjects from a particular distance. With primes, I might go nuts changing lenses, but the bigger problem will be dust. India's dusty, crazy dusty.

Also, i'd like to hear your views about a mixed bag of zooms and primes.....

we'll talk about the actual body later, but it'll be a full frame
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[Celt]

Well I have used Canon equipment since I was a teenager, and while expensive the lenses are mostly extremely good, especially the "L". O would forget the 35f2, as the 24-70 2.8L will be better at that focal length, and when wide angle that half stop is nothing. I could almost say the same over the 50f1.4 but it's nice to have a "compact" shooting rig at that focal length.

The 85f1.8 is nothing compared to the 85f1.2L very expensive but the lens design has not changed in nearly 30 years . . . what does that tell you . . . I have one and it is an incredible lens, but if using for portraits it will pick out every tiny skin flaw in unforgiving detail . . .

The 100-400 focal length can be achieved with a 2x converter on the 70-200 and you still get f5.6, though no IS . . . I'd get a 300f2.8L which will then double to a 600f5.6 for great wildlife photography, and good sports coverage]]And even if you start on a 5D this will serve you well when you go to the 1DsMkIII, or even if you go for a film body as a supplement.

Dust is a big problem in digital land. You can get a "film changing bag", which is a sealed bag and change lenses inside that . . .you should be able to change lenses blindfold anyway, but that will minimise dust contamination.
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[graf]

I think your biggest worry should be theft protection if you are willing to spend so much money and good phisycal strenght to carry arround 10 kilo aparat
try minolta dimage A2
you'll have more fun ,photo gear is usually made for specific form of picture but A2 has it all
line is continued in sony alpha
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I’m not attempting to enlighten others with my personal ideas, or taking up crusades in any particular cause.

[TheDuke]

You want a full frame digital SLR? The cheapest full frame DSLR is the Canon 5D, and it costs over $2000! It is a very nice camera, but a little too expensive for my budget. I was looking at the cheaper crop cameras for my future DSLR rig.

If I had a 5D, I would personally choose a set of fast primes:
Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM AutoFocus Wide Angle
Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Standard
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L-II (USM) Telephoto

Those lenses would be my personal choice because I am used to using prime lenses on my Minolta SRT-101, but you may prefer a pair of zoom lenses instead:
Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM AutoFocus Wide Angle Telephoto Zoom
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM Image Stabilizer AutoFocus Telephoto Zoom
You can backup these two lenses with a 50mm f/1.4 prime for low light if you wish. (Or a macro if you like macro photography.)

And about dust: Dust is the bane of all photography. It gets on your lenses, your negatives, and your digital sensors. (It gets on your monitor too.) I recommend getting a big "hurricane blower" and a blower brush. They are essential.
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[psycho_mccrazy]

aah yes, i forgot the macro lens. i do like macros, so will be getting one. maybe not at the time of kit purchase, but will get one for sure...

@celt
Are you trying to make me rob banks, that 300/f2 IS L is 4K US. its a big no no. i am not a pro photographer. I wanna spend decent money but do have some limits....

the 2x teleconverter idea is good - it should be a decent tool to tele-out lenses until i gather some more moolah to get real ones.

the 85/f1.2 is sure an awesome lens, but like i said, for a non-pro, its cost is overkill.

I am quite bent on that 50/f1.4 because i wanna be able to capture some decent indoors snaps without flashes. the f1.2 would be awesome but then then half a stop for five times the price is not my cup of tea.

@graf
i don't necessarily like sony, and especially because i will be getting the kit and future upgrades in Japan where english language menu enabled cameras are not sold by sony, its sort of is not an option.

and yes, do gotta take a lot of care of this equipment.

@TheDuke
thanks for reminding about the macro, i almost forgot it.

however, i still haven't gotten an answer to my main question. As a (sort of) beginer (will practice a lot in the manual mode of my current cam before moving on to a SLR kit), what would be good. primes or zooms. or a combo

like a 16-35/f2.8 L II + a 50/f1.4 + 70-200/f2.8 L (IS/non IS will be decided later with the total cost) + a tele-converter for the beginning before i move to serious tele lenses. And a decent macro lens ofcourse - gotta read more about macro lenses.

DUST:
great idea there celt, learning blindfolded lens changing will totally be worth the prevention of dust using that film change bag.
will definetly have to take a lot of care with dust in this digital age, where most of dust don't go away with film roll.
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Backup: Athlon 3000+/MSI RS480M2/2GDDR400/7900GTX.
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[TheDuke]

If you are sort of a beginner, then I would recommend starting with the 50mm f/1.4 prime and then go from there. If you want to handhold shots in low light without flash, then a lens this fast is essential. The f/1.4 lets in twice as much light as an f/2, and four times a much light as an f/2.8. This means it is two full stops faster than the fastest zoom, and it could be the difference between a 1/15sec shutter speed (needs tripod) and a 1/60sec shutter speed (can handhold). I have taken pictures in a darkened aquarium without flash using the Rokkor 58mm f/1.4 on my Minolta, and I was rather pleased with the results.

For a starter kit you will need:
· Digital camera body
· Fast, standard prime lens
· A good tripod
· A good bounce flash (Like this)
· Blower brush
· A camera bag that can carry the camera, 3 lenses, and a flash (Do not get a bag that is too big.)

Consider everything else extra.
Also, why do you insist on a full-frame camera? If you really like telephoto work you may prefer a crop camera. (The camera and lenses would be much cheaper!)
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[psycho_mccrazy]

as for the full frame camera, call it a whim...

i know that today's cropped ones are quite close to full-frames in term of noise performance, and also that they use the best area of lenses so you do not need super-expensive lenses for 'em. and making super-teles is a lot easier with croppers, but i also like to do some wide angle work {landscapes, groups at close ranges, cars and bikes at auto-shows (35mm widest equivalent of my current cam wasn't cutting it at auto-expo 2008), lines of bikes standing at our biker group meets and things like this}, and for this croppeds won't be much good unless i get the cropped specific lenses that cannot be used if i decide for a full frame later.

and i won't be a complete beginner at photography when i get the kit, been clicking photos since ages using a yashica compact 35mm reel camera, and have decently used a canon handheld zoom reel camera, a sony dsc-p200. Will be practicing a lot on my current Panasonic DMC FZ50 before moving on.

as for the kit, i have a decent tripod that'll hold unless i start using BIG lenses, and will definetly be getting a flash like the one you mentioned for cases where you just cannot manage without.

as for tele-photo work, i won't really be doing a lot of it, because real tele-work would be at wildlife or at field sports, which won't make a lot of the percentage of my work. the tele-nut statement meant that i'd like to do it, but with 6 day a week office it is not really that possible....
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Windjammer: E8400@3.6GHz + 4G DDR2-800 + Ati 4870 on GA-EP45-DS3R with Scythe Ninja 2 and 3x HDDs inside a Cooler Master HAF 932 case.
Backup: Athlon 3000+/MSI RS480M2/2GDDR400/7900GTX.
Displays are a 24.1 inch IODATA (1900.1200) and a Samsung Syncmaster 997MB (1600.1200)

[graf]

http://dpreview.com/
look into forum and before buy make sure to check
http://the-digital-picture.com/

5D, 16-35,70-200 both 2.8 IS are best of the best
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I’m not attempting to enlighten others with my personal ideas, or taking up crusades in any particular cause.

[psycho_mccrazy]

have spent a good amount of time on both these websites, though as you suggest i should try the dpreview forums. that should get me some more tips and viewpoints.
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Windjammer: E8400@3.6GHz + 4G DDR2-800 + Ati 4870 on GA-EP45-DS3R with Scythe Ninja 2 and 3x HDDs inside a Cooler Master HAF 932 case.
Backup: Athlon 3000+/MSI RS480M2/2GDDR400/7900GTX.
Displays are a 24.1 inch IODATA (1900.1200) and a Samsung Syncmaster 997MB (1600.1200)

[pippi]

For a start lens, consider 24-105/4 L IS. Extremely versatile range of zoom, from true wide angle to portrait, makes it a perfect walk-around lens. It's very decent optically ("L" lens), although slower than 24-70/2.8, it's considerably cheaper (at least here) and still fast enough, especially when paired with 5d, which has silky-smooth low noise higher sensitivities. Last but not least this lens has IS which is an excellent feature for kinds of photography you mentioned before.
Add some macro lens, 17-40/4 L and 100-400 L IS and you'll be able to shoot literally everything with ease and guarantee of excellent results (of course if there won't be any problem in "user.exe module" ;-P)

And I'd stay with zoom lenses if I were you. These lenses have one major advantage over primes - versatility. "L" ones are very good optically and I'm quite sure you won''t need anything better for a long time. And you won't need to change them as often as in system based on primes, which is quite an important factor for a photographer who lives and works in dusty environment.
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[SABERJ2X]

whoa whoa... take it easy spending tons of money on a camera lol...

I'd start with a beginners camera, D60 or XSi

then you get less and less for the money until you go the super mega high end where you get next gen features

like the D3 or the 1Ds-MarkIII

I'd only get 3 lenses

macro lens

0.86~x Wide Angle - 2x zoom (like the 24~55mm

and a 1.4x to 5~x lens (kinda like those 50~200mm lenses)

and I agree with pippi


and in the worst of cases, look around for CMOS cleaner swabs
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[SABERJ2X]

[TheDuke]

graf: dpreview is a great site. That is where I have done most of my research on the new digital SLRs.

pippi: I personally think that an f/4 normal zoom lens is too slow. You should really have an f/2.8, even if you have to go with Sigma or Tamron to stay in budget. (A Canon lens would be prefered, of course.) You could probably get away with the Canon 70-200mm f/4L for the long end to save some money. (This assumes that your "big gun" would be mostly used outdoors or on a tripod.) And if low light photography is your thing, you will still need an f/1.4 or f/1.2 prime to supplement the zooms.

About full-frame vs aps-frame:
Full frame is nice because you have a better selection of wide angle lenses, a bigger viewfinder, and shallower depth of field for portraits. You just have to decide if that is worth it to you for the extra $1300+. Remember that the cheaper crop cameras are very good now.
If you are set on a full-frame camera, then you might want to wait a little while for Nikon and Sony to release thier full-frame DSLRs. It would be interesting to see how they stack up against the Canons, and to see how the pricing will be when Canon gets some competition in this market segment.
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[pippi]

[psycho_mccrazy]

@pippi
many a times i have seen that my pic-snapping situations are low light, and in that case, a f2.8 is the minimum that'd do. the f4 might be too slow...

the versatility of the zooms is awesome, especially in dusty environs, but the large apertures of the primes have me sold, and thus I guess i will take a mix of primes and zooms.

@saber
i will not be a complete beginners. as pippi said, the problem sometimes is with the user.exe module, and I plan to train that module for a year on my current camera before moving on to this setup. should be decent i guess.

the D3 and the 1Ds MkII/III are SUPER EXPENSIVE and are meant for those who make a living out of photography, not for me i guess. The difference between the crop-frames and full frames is decreasing, but i am eagerly waiting for a 5D upgrade to take it a notch higher. And in the year that lies ahead, there might be some action in the full-frame scene.

@graf: the nikon full frame D3 is superexpensive and totally outta my range, and dunno anything about sony - and their lenses will also be real expensive compared to equivalent canon L's from what we know about sony and what pippi tells.

I do want to get a full-frame, but if at the time of purchase, cropped-frames are better in quality, i will consider them without any prejudices.
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[graf]

Keep in mind that in USA big black camera makes you terror suspect/ /

I'm currently looking for good P&S superzoom 28-200mm /aperture doesn't matter/to fully enjoy street photography without being harased by ass8ole in uniforms
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I’m not attempting to enlighten others with my personal ideas, or taking up crusades in any particular cause.

[psycho_mccrazy]

[TheDuke]

[Silver]

Sony A700 review

There will be a Sony A900 expensive flagship model avalible sometime this year.. im not sure when. But it will probably be full frame.

If you want to know about the best lenses for the Sony Alpha system.. these would probably be the ones.. I might have missed some but its a rough idea of good lenses avalible for this system. There still seems to be missing some longer zooms ending with 400 or 500mm.. and still no new Sony 200mm macro.. but thats about the shortcomings i can think of with this system.. but Sony has promised to release more lenses.

Sony - AF DT 11-18 F4.5-5.6 D
Carl Zeiss - Vario-Sonnar T* DT 16-80 F3.5-4.5
Carl Zeiss - Vario-Sonnar T* 24-70 F2.8 ZA SSM
Sony - AF 70-200 F2.8 G SSM
Sony - AF 70-300 F4.5-5.6 G

Sony - AF 35 F1.4 G
Carl Zeiss - Planar T* 85 F1.4
Carl Zeiss - Sonnar T* 135 F1.8
Sony - 135 F2.8 [T4.5] STF (special bokeh lens)
Sony - AF 300 F2.8 G SSM

Sony - AF 50 F2.8 Macro
Sony - AF 100 F2.8 Macro
Minolta - AF 200 F4 Macro APO G,

You probably can't go wrong with wich system you get.. but do try them before purchasing anything.. for me I was choosing between Nikon and Sony.. but the built-in anti-shake in the Sony camera bodies won.. on Nikon you got to purchase the lenses that are stabilised.. and not every focal length is avalible with stabilisation.
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[psycho_mccrazy]

hey boss, thanks for taking time to list so many lenses....
me will take a look at these, though right now i am quite bent on canon especially with 5D MkII rumors popping about

more 5d MkII info, believers and non-believers

me is praying with all fingers crossed . the feature set at that pricepoint is kickass (Full Frame, 15.2 Megs, native 12800 ISO, 6fps, sensor shake cleaning, 300000 shot shutter, 922k pixel 3inch lcd, liveview, 29 point focus, with 12 cross type points, weather sealing....)

i am not such a fan of VR/IS. more important to me are high ISO low noise performance, and right now the D3 is KING but freaking expensive. the rumored 5D MkII should also be good. and the full frame flagship of sony should also be quite good. I do have a good amount of time before the purchase so will study all systems in detail before any final decision.

and ofcourse, more important will be the lenses that will make up the system, a good body is nothing without good glass.
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Windjammer: E8400@3.6GHz + 4G DDR2-800 + Ati 4870 on GA-EP45-DS3R with Scythe Ninja 2 and 3x HDDs inside a Cooler Master HAF 932 case.
Backup: Athlon 3000+/MSI RS480M2/2GDDR400/7900GTX.
Displays are a 24.1 inch IODATA (1900.1200) and a Samsung Syncmaster 997MB (1600.1200)