As computing goes mainstream to the great unwashed the proportion of enthusiasts are shrinking by the Apple day. It is sadly becoming a very niche market overall and more about showing off CPU prestige as well as partly advertising the potential of their server product in the top dollar consumer space. Intel is wearing the CPU crown and will do so well into this decade until AMD's HSA platform takes flight and TSMC's and GloFlo's fab processes catch up - investment timed for when the economy turns the corner in 2016 or so. The real competition is at the other end of the scale, like the other end of the rainbow.

The only thing that is shrinking is AMD.

"more about showing off CPU prestige as well as partly advertising the potential of their server product in the top dollar consumer space"

For once in your life you said something that made sense. You should give it a little more thought on what you just said. Maybe that will help you to wake up.

Edit: Its ironic really how i get downvoted by the AMD fan-boys. They just don't want AMD to compete and pretty much AMD has the same attitude. Especially with an idiot in charge like RR.

I'm afraid your head is shoved so far up Intel's butt that arguing any kind of logic with you is pointless.

This doesn't prove anything either way. However, to say there is no competition is rather daft considering Intel needs to come up with an answer to AMD's HSA campaign in the works. Just because Intel has the fastest desktop processor proves absolutely nothing. There is nothing new here at all.

Exactly and there is nothing new from AMD.
You prefer competing with low i3's.
Its very sad really.

Ouch competing with i3's AMD is sad indeed.

Why is this such a revelation troll? The take away message that you clearly missed is that AMD is building a weapon of mass computation called HSA to shoot down Intel. It's not in beta. It's working and it's being tweaked. But the market isn't ready to receive it due to the economic downturn. Both intel and AMD have both slowed their roadmaps and AMD won't release their high-end response until the economy picks up. In the mean time, expect a kind of holding pattern from these two companies.

"The only thing that is shrinking is AMD."

1) The entire traditional PC market is shrinking (desktops and laptops). Google it.

2) Q3 2012 - Intel's Key Financial Information and Business Unit Trends (GAAP, unless otherwise stated)
PC Client Group revenue of $8.6 billion, flat sequentially and down 8 percent year-over-year
http://www.engadget.com/2...ntel-reports-q3-earnings/

3) Extreme processors have always been overpriced for little gain in performance for 99% of users

Average performance in games and applications
$195 FX-8350 = 100%
$320 i7-3770K = 116%
$999 i7-3970X = 127%
http://www.computerbase.d...st-amd-fx-8350-vishera/4/

Not even hardcore Intel users are dumb enough to waste $1K on a 3960/70X when 3930K offers the same performance for $450 less.

The market for these $1K processors is the top 1% of the US or someone who makes a living by doing video rendering/encoding, photoshop work, or broke high school kids that spend all their savings to have bragging rights.

Still doesn't change the fact that the traditional PC market is shrinking right now.

The smart buyer would buy the 3930K for $500-570 with 3.8ghz Turbo rather than spend $1k+ to get 3970X with 4.0ghz Turbo.

People love downrating but they can't see any reason why someone might want to take a $170 Vishera CPU?

What would you take?

Option #1: FX-8320 $170 + $350 HD7970/GTX670 = $520
Option #2: Core i7-3770K $320 + $200 HD7870/GTX660 = $520

The 2nd system would be slightly faster in multi-tasking but it would get its face mopped in gaming by Option #1, since most games are GPU limited.

That is where haswell comes to the rescue.
But its delaying due to AMD's inability to compete.

No pal. The delay is about poor return on investment in hard economic conditions. Go back to school now and listen to the teacher 'cause I'm getting sick of tutoring you on Xbit.

Move on because you have nothing to say just nonsense. So now its hard economic conditions? LOL
Umm AMD has a very small amount of the market share, if they had better products and since they are cheaper from Intel its more easy for them to generate sales and to gain market share but i am afraid that is not the case. Poor execution from AMD has led them in this situation that they currently are. I am afraid that is you that needs to go back to school pal.

So you believe Intel should go full steam ahead in a recession doing their tick tocks when the market is crumbling for their products? Both Intel and AMD are subject to the same market conditions. Both are slowing their road maps to clear inventory. Go read your economics 101 so you can graduate junior high.

"So you believe Intel should go full steam ahead in a recession doing their tick tocks when the market is crumbling for their products?"

Well hopefully this will force Intel to start slashing their prices as well. Their prices are to high because they have always enjoyed their monopoly and the lack of competition. Just because intel is to expensive does not mean that the market is crumling. Its crumbling for obvious reasons.

In this worldwide recession where the x86 desktop market is officially contracting, Intel will:

(a) delay road maps to help clear inventory (recessions are termed "slow downs" for the simple minded)

(b) shave prices to help clear inventory (if they can)

The Haswell delays have much less to do with AMD competition at this time (which is also subject to the same market conditions). Although of course in the past when AMD had stumbled, Intel milked consumers like they had landed on Mayfair with two hotels. And many of us have never forgotten that and this is precisely why we are impelled ethically to buy AMD each update even if their product is sometimes slightly inferior in performance and efficiency (but always a better bang for your buck).

There is no world wide recession. It is only affecting debt laden countries who have maxed out their credit cards. Now have to print money as a way to pay off their debts It would be much simpler and less painful to all if the tax rate was increased by 2% across the board. Pollies are to scared to this.

There is a boderline recession in the US where interests rates are 0%. There are full recessions and boderline recessions going on in Europe simultaneously. That's a majority of AMD's and Intel's market. My country is also feeling the effects although buffered well in the Asian region. People and businesses either lack money or they are holding it back because of fear of losing their job or going through an extended downturn. People get by without upgrading their rigs to the newest i-something chip.

In fact it generates so much sales they are still sinking. Make up your minds AMD boys. Some tell us its about hard economic conditions, and some are telling us stupid things like you for example that they are generating great sales. But its nowhere to be seen. That is what AMD tried to tell us about the millions of apu's that they shipped, but again its nowhere to be seen.

I haven't seen any sales #s breakdown on Vishera. Where did you get that info?

It is good value for $199 though for those doing things other than gaming. Didn't you get the memo? The AMD haters here are all rocking 3960X and GTX690 SLI. They think 60 fps minimum is required for PC gaming or otherwise they'd rather not play videogames at all. They also don't want a desktop PC unless it has a $1K CPU and $2K of GPUs in them, or it's considered budget to them.

AvONbaCK has a keychain around his neck with 10 3960X processors strapped on it. To him, the mainstream sub-$350 CPU buyer is "the 47%" food stamp citizen, apparently.

"I haven't seen any sales #s breakdown on Vishera"

That is exactly the same thing they have been telling us about the bulldozer and apu's. So what?
They have still sunken.

The only reason those prices are high is because AMD was unable to compete for so many years and especially now.

Intel's Extreme processors were always $1000, even going back to Pentium 4 days when Pentium 4 EE got beaten by Athlon 64/FX.

I don't need to repeat myself again and again, just read above.
You are basically saying the same things again and again, this is so boring.

As an Intel user, even I realize that LGA2011 platform has been a marketing failure and 3960/70X CPUs represent terrible value for 99.9% of users. Gaming enthusiasts spend their $ on SSDs, multiple-GPUs and multiple-screens before they even consider an X series Intel CPU. That's my point but here you come in and discuss how Intel charges these high prices because AMD is uncompetitive.

Intel always charged these prices for their EE CPUs, even when Pentium 4 EE CPUs were crap.

It is actually You, 123, and some other AMD haters online keep repeating the same thing about how AMD can't compete on the high-end blah blah blah. Thanks for repeating the obvious. Is your dream job at Intel or NV or something? Did you get fired from AMD? You are a very angry person regarding AMD, apparently not getting it through your head that AMD is 75x smaller firm.

"Intel always charged these prices for their EE CPUs, even when Pentium 4 EE CPUs were crap."
If they had real competition until now they would not be able to do it for ever BestJinjo. Its common sense.
You just don't get it do you?
If AMD was able to compete LGA2011 was going to be a great "hit" at a much lower price. At least half price maybe even more.

No, I get it 100%.

AMD hasn't made a high-end gaming CPU worth buying above $200 since 2006. But it's 2012 and you and your friend 123 just woke up in the year 2012 and realized this just now?

Where the hell have you two been since Core 2 Duo days?

Vishera is no more of a flop than Phenom I and II were and yet here you are trolling every AMD thread about how AMD sucks. Are we going to hear how AMD sucks from you for another 10-20 years? Same old story?

It is you and your friend 123 that are completely out of touch with reality. You and him expect a company 75x smaller to make a product that's as good as Intel's. AMD hasn't done it since 2006. Why would they do it now, or next year or in 2014? They wouldn't.

You should go on a Mazda forum and tell them they suck because Mazda can't make a Porsche 911 or Mercedes Benz SLS competitor and laugh at Mazda. Brilliant logic!

AMD was never really close to Intel for high-end CPU race, excluding 1-time exception - Netburst Pentium 4/D - Intel's mistake, not AMD's brilliance. Every other time, Intel always had the faster CPU, period. In reality, Intel had a backup CPU architecture in Benias. Realistically, it was never truly behind AMD.

You seriously don't get it, do you? You expect AMD to make a CPU as good or better than Intel's.

1) AMD is 75x smaller
2) Intel spends more $ on R&D per year than AMD's market cap
3) Intel has its own fabs, 1 generation ahead of every fab in the world. That means AMD can't even hire anyone else who can match Intel's manufacturing node advantage/capabilities.
4) Intel can afford to hire the best engineers, and it has many times more of them

AMD is not going to be a high-end CPU competitor to Intel unless something drastic happens, only in your wildest dreams. Everyone here understands that AMD's strategy is NOT to make the fastest x86 CPU, except you and 123! In fact, AMD has lost this race 6 years ago.

You wishing, screaming, and throwing childish tantrums changes nothing about the fact that a company 75x smaller, with 1 manufacturing node disadvantage, cannot under any circumstances beat Intel. It's common sense, but you seem to live in a bubble where you think AMD should magically be an Intel competitor in the $300+ CPU race.

It's actually even more embarrassing for NV that they don't dominate the small AMD firm in GPU space.

AvON, what if a person wants a well-rounded PC, that can play games and do other stuff too, but has a limited budget?

What would you take?

Option #1: FX-8320 $170 + $350 HD7970/GTX670 = $520
Option #2: Core i7-3770K $320 + $200 HD7870/GTX660 = $520

The 2nd system would be barely faster in multi-tasking and get its face mopped in gaming by Option #1.

This is no excuse BestJinjo and a silly question, I don't care about limited budgets. In fact i am in that same category just as so many others.
I want better competition that will lower prices down and to get the best hardware possible at an afordable price.

No way HD7970 costs 350 dollars, you are full of sh*t, and not all of us live in the US. For me a 7970 costs about 500 dollars.

Your response above to BestJinjo's incredibly thoughtful arguments demonstrates with clarity you are just a hopeless troll Avon, ruining this good tech news site. Aren't you afraid that users like mmstick most likely have links to Anonymous members in the Linux community and might uncover your identity and turn up to your doorstep like a ninja with a dozen AMD stock CPU fans ready to chop off your typing fingers? But first they would tie you to a chair and put a Bulldozer die under your balls whilst it struggles to complete unoptimised benchmarks that you favour.

Oh really?
Lets see who is the troll here shall we?
http://www.amazon.com/s/r...p;rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ahd7970 <-- This is for usa the prices on amazon for the hd7970.

http://www.amazon.de/s/re...amp;field-keywords=hd7970 <-- This is the prices for hd7970 in the europian countries. Convert that to dollars and tell me the price linuxlowdown. And that price is without shipping. Actually it costs even more.

Now who is the troll "linuxlowdown"??
Me or you, or your budy on the top as well?
Move on linuxlowdown. You are here to troll obviously.

Edit: Stop editing your post all the time linuxlowdown. You have wrote more bad things to me before you have edited your post. I think you have gone to far linuxlowdown and i think its time that someone does something about it.

Your argument is totaly unconvincing. Make no mistake. You are the troll.

Lol - you sit on the browser hitting refresh every 5 minutes? Don't you have better things to do? Tweaking the humourous aspects of the post over the space of 10 minutes is no great deal. All artists fiddle with their works when creating them. But for you to change the actually content of posts in order to completely change your argument is OK? I have witnessed you do that on several occasions, even after others had posted a response.

So I crossed the line with you? You do this on a daily basis calling people s**theads, morons, idiots and the like. My post was obviously over the top in the blackest of humour, designed to entertain. Being over the top and humourous indicates to anyone that it's not a serious attack. I have never been nasty in a direct fashion.