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Intel Corp.’s Haswell microprocessors due in early June are expected to bring a number of innovations designed to improve performance and cut power consumption, however, in many cases not all users will be able to enjoy all of them. As it appears, end-users will either have disable low-power states of Haswell or get a new power-supply units compatible with the new Intel chip.

As it appears, Haswell's C6/C7 states require a minimum load of 0.05A on the 12V2 rail, and many desktop power supply units (PSUs) just cannot provide that low current, reports The Tech Report web-site. Numerous older PSUs, which comply with ATX12V v2.3 design guidelines that only called for a minimum load of 0.5A on the CPU power rail, can be equipped with a less sophisticated internal feedback loop/protection, reports VR-Zone web-site. As a result, unless C6/C7 power states are disabled in the BIOS, PCs with older/cheap PSUs may become unstable when processors enter these states.

To make the matters worse, many power supply units do not report minimum currents supported by 12V2 rail. As a result, it is now hard for system makers and end-users to determine whether their PSUs are Intel Core i-series “Haswell” compatible.


LGA1150 socket for Intel Core i-series 4000-family "Haswell" microprocessors. Image by Lab51.ro web-site.

"I fully expect the [motherboard] companies to disable C6/C7 in the BIOS (though consumers could enable it if they chose to) as there are simply too many PSU's in the market space which might not work correctly. Corsair is working to ensure that all of its power supplies support the C6/C7 states. We believe they already do but are checking,” said Robert Pearce, validation program manager at Corsair Memory.

Intel did not comment on the news-story.

Tags: Intel, Haswell, Core, 22nm, Shark Bay, Lynx Point

Discussion

Comments currently: 21
Discussion started: 05/01/13 12:16:51 AM
Latest comment: 05/06/13 12:22:51 PM
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1. 
This would be another Intel royal cluster if not disabled in BIOS. I can see the PC hardware forums already with hundreds of reports of people's PCs not coming out of the low power sleep states with InHell Haswell chippies. Leave it to InHell to dream up a non-workable design. This is almost as good as the InHell BTX design that mobo and PC case makers refused to support.
3 5 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 05/01/13 12:16:51 AM]
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2. 
At least we know Corsair will have a compatibility list, which is nice. I imagine many people (including myself) that roll-their-own PCs and planning to upgrade to Haswell use their PSUs (or other Seasonic-based et al-based units).

I imagine most companies will do the same. If nothing else, it should ensure better quality PSUs on the markets in the future, even if it is a check-box feature.

I can understand why people hate changes in requirements (for full support) like this, but considering how murky PSU standards generally are (even with the fairly-new efficiency ratings), things like this can help separate the complete crap from those more in tune with modern standards. I like that.
4 3 [Posted by: turtle  | Date: 05/01/13 12:55:45 AM]
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3. 
show the post
3 6 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 05/01/13 01:35:53 AM]
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4. 
LOL. It now needs GiGa-Fatt power supply .... Intel Intel again dissappointment and you said it would be more power reductions
2 3 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 05/01/13 04:55:21 AM]
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did you ever bothered reading the article above?

3 0 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 05/01/13 10:40:48 AM]
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5. 
how hard would it have been for intel to simply configure the cpu around the psu with an adaptive power control switch on the chip. if the cpu calculated it wasn't able to draw such low states from the psu, then the processor would not go into those low states.
4 1 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 05/01/13 04:57:29 AM]
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I don't think it is possible for the PSU to report it's state to the cpu, so it the cpu or the chipset or whatever, can adjust it's settings.
1 2 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 05/01/13 10:41:58 AM]
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the cpu itself would check to see if the psu is capable of gong into that low of state pretty much the same concept of how a multimeter checks for voltage.
2 1 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 05/01/13 07:57:25 PM]
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so CPUs have multimeters in them?
0 1 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 05/02/13 08:18:46 AM]
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I said like a multimeter. so you are saying it would be harder to do something like that then then anything else that was ever designed on a cpu...
1 0 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 05/02/13 08:22:29 AM]
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6. 
I think the stability issue will be avoided by disabling the c6/C7 power states in the bios on the mobo, but that wuill make the already toted power efficient Haswell chip less power efficient because of it lol. That is if you have a incompatabile PSU

This is from a post on Techpower ups forums "At present only 23 power supplies appear to be compatible with these new C6/C7 states: 19 from Corsair, three from InWin and one from Seasonic."
http://www.techpowerup.co...s/showthread.php?t=183393
4 1 [Posted by: veli05  | Date: 05/01/13 07:26:20 AM]
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and all mid range to high end Enermax PSU's
0 0 [Posted by: caring1  | Date: 05/03/13 04:18:02 AM]
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7. 
show the post
0 3 [Posted by: bluvg  | Date: 05/01/13 08:39:29 AM]
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Your missing the point though. Intel takes pride in making energy efficient powerful cpus and not taking into consideration that how they are designing their products is not taking older hardware into account is hardware design 101.

Individuals with older psu's will simply not be able to take full advantage of Haswell's new and improved energy efficient settings, and the only way they will is if the consumer buys a compatabile psu.

How many people will actually use the power states and who will benefit from the new power efficiency states reamins to be seem but the fact is if any of this is true intel has alienated the consumers who have a non-compatabile PSU and want to take advantage of Haswell's new power efficiency options for whatever reason. Bad business decision for sure, but probably one they can live. It is Intel we are talking about here.
0 0 [Posted by: veli05  | Date: 05/02/13 11:33:39 AM]
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That doesn't make sense:

- The goal is to reduce power utilization.
- Intel designs a new chip with new technologies and enhancements to reduce power utilization.
- One new, significant, optional enhancement--a dramatic reduction in standby state power draw--requires new minimum power draw specs from PSUs.

= New PSUs designed to the spec can provide the power advantage. Older PSUs can continue to power the new CPUs, but they are not capable of providing the minimum current draw necessary for the low power standby state.

How on earth is that Intel's fault? How is Intel alienating customers when they can still use their old PSUs if they want anyway? How is this different from any other new technology of the past few decades that requires new equipment to take advantage of it?
0 0 [Posted by: bluvg  | Date: 05/02/13 01:13:42 PM]
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How on earth is that Intel's fault? How is Intel alienating customers when they can still use their old PSUs if they want anyway? How is this different from any other new technology of the past few decades that requires new equipment to take advantage of it?



Becasue Intel's new Haswell, were not designed with these older PSU's in mind. When Intel totes power efficiency and performance as much as they do these days you think they could have designed a chip to be as efficient on older PSU specs, instead they chose to ignore it which is just a bad move.

It would have been like Sony if, when they released the PS3 with the new blu ray drive, decided to make PS2 dvd games not playable simply because it had a new blu ray drive. Thats just stupid right? This is exactly what Intel did with their Haswell chips. I am well aware tech has growing pains but usually ones that are/seem this drastic. With a chip that is not even on the market yet we shall see what actually transpires but the info does not bode well.
0 0 [Posted by: veli05  | Date: 05/06/13 12:22:51 PM]
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8. 
I don't like intel, but if that will lead to a "cleaner" PSU market, it's fine by me.

To pick a good PSU is a pain.
1 2 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 05/01/13 10:43:02 AM]
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At least Corsair already is my preferred brand for PSU, and if TR is correct, 19/23 compatible being from them, good start at least.

That said, this is damned clumsy of Intel. There ARE ways to avoid this, and instead they just ignore the issues it will cause? Really clumsy.
0 1 [Posted by: DIREWOLF75  | Date: 05/02/13 03:47:54 AM]
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9. 
This is an advance in technology which enables lower power consumption, so good for Intel.

It has some compatibility issues with old hardware, but this only affects people who build their own PCs, a small and shrinking market, and of these it only affects the small fraction who want to mix old and new components.
2 1 [Posted by: CSMR  | Date: 05/01/13 03:43:21 PM]
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10. 
First they force us to buy a new mobo; now they want to replace our expensive power source too. You know what? Fuck you Intel! If you are to lazy to put some voltage regulators/capacitors/etc on the motherboard (this should have been as default for the new chipsets), then let only the suckers buy your new CPU which is only marginally a little better than previews gen.
1 2 [Posted by: TAViX  | Date: 05/01/13 08:39:40 PM]
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Way to overreact. All you have to do is disable the C6/C7 states--which may be done automatically on the mobo anyway. Intel is NOT forcing anyone to buy a new PSU.
2 1 [Posted by: bluvg  | Date: 05/01/13 08:47:16 PM]
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