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It is not a secret that AMD’s next-generation code-named Kaveri accelerated processing unit for high-performance systems will be significantly different than the currently available chips in many ways. As it appears, the difference is so significant that the new hybrid microprocessor will require power supply circuitry, which means new FM2+ form-factor and appropriate mainboards. It will be impossible to install Kaveri into existing platforms.

AMD Fusion A-series APU code-named Kaveri is projected to feature up to four Steamroller high-performance x86 general-purpose cores as well as GCN architecture-based AMD Radeon HD graphics engine. The Kaveri chip will be AMD’s first high-performance accelerated processing unit with HSA [heterogeneous system architecture] enhancements, such as heterogeneous uniform memory access, CPU and GPU cache coherency and other. Moreover, Kaveri will be AMD’s first high-performance APUs made using 28nm process technology. Finally, the chips will feature new dual-channel memory controller as well as all-new power management.

As a result of massive changes inside Kaveri, the chips will feature new FM2+ form-factor and will only be compatible with new mainboards with FM2+ sockets, according to a new roadmap update issued by AMD. The new chips will therefore be incompatible with existing mainboards, which means that there will be no upgrade path for systems based on A-series “Trinity” and “Richland” APUs.

Given the fact that Kaveri will feature a number of “firsts” for AMD, a new socket was something logical to expect. What is unclear at this point is whether FM2+ mainboards will have any specific requirements and whether they will be more expensive than existing motherboards with FM2 sockets.

It should be noted that among other things Kaveri will reportedly support not only DDR3 memory, but also GDDR5 memory, which will be AMD’s secret weapon to fight for high-performance systems. GDDR5 should enable very high performance of integrated graphics sub-system for all-in-one and mobile systems.

Maximum memory bandwidth provided by dual-channel DDR3 memory sub-system at 2133MHz is 34.1GB/s, which should be sufficient for today’s microprocessors, but may be insufficient for powerful graphics adapters. By contrast, an inexpensive 128-bit GDDR5-based memory sub-system with 3400MHz effective clock-speed enables 54.4GB/s of memory bandwidth, or 60% higher compared to DDR3-based sub-system. While this clearly is not enough for a high-end graphics solution, it should be sufficient for modern mainstream graphics adapters that cost around $100 and which truly provide adequate performance in video games.

There are two problems with GDDR5 memory: it requires point-to-point interconnection and the maximum capacity of today’s GDDR5 chips is 2Gb (256MB). The former fact means that AMD A-series “Kaveri” APUs with GDDR5 memory will come in BGA package and will be soldered to mainboards, which will not be a problem for notebooks and all-in-one desktops, but will eliminate any possible upgrade options. The latter fact means that either AMD Kaveri-based system will be equipped with maximum of 4GB of GDDR5 (as 8GB of GDDR5, like on the PlayStation 4, requires 32 chips), which is not enough for modern general-purpose PCs, or AMD and its partners will have to wait till 4Gb GDDR5 chips arrive.

It is expected that AMD will release its Fusion A-series “Kaveri” APUs will be released in late 2013.

Tags: AMD, Kaveri, Fusion, 28nm, Steamroller, GCN, Radeon

Discussion

Comments currently: 107
Discussion started: 05/31/13 12:05:07 AM
Latest comment: 06/07/13 10:19:44 PM
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1. 
Kaveri will be the most advanced APU on the planet when it's demonstrated Q4. I understand SK Hynix has developed 4Gb GDDR5 (256M x 16) chips available in Q3 and Samsung (a founding member of the HSA consortium) will mass produce them - and surely two of these suckers will be part of the package. I'm personally not bothered by the need for soldered APUs due to this technological advance. But if you're looking for an upgrade path, AMD will likely still do the stand alone FX CPUs for FM2. Now, all AMD supporters and tech fans are counting on Macrofail to pull in its HSA compatible kernel for Windows 8.1, to be released in Q4.

SK Hynix 4GB GDDR5
https://www.skhynix.com/i...272013_GraphicsMemory.pdf

and for your entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMToNsCyFQU
8 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 05/31/13 12:05:07 AM]
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sorry friend i think we will not see HSA on windows coz Microsoft don’t make angry her boyfriend(intel).AMD HSA requires different ecosystem means whole OS should be optimize(same as intel Hyper-Threading) for HSA and to help developers AMD is giving thousand dollar tool codeXL completely free. Scientists already said that HSA will open door to EXASCALE Computing. Microsoft is not doing loyal and fair business as we all know that Windows 8.1 blue is coming just to support new feature of Huswell cpu i.e. TSX, how u can think that MS will support HSA coz it is not even supporting OpenCL coz AMD 120$ APU with OpenCL clearly beat top notch i7
12 4 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 02:59:29 AM]
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nice video....ha ha ha
8 2 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 02:59:55 AM]
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I agree with your analogy. But maybe, just maybe this time it will be different. MacroFail is facing stiff competition from ARM+Linux+Google and to a lesser degree ARM+UNIX+Apple in the OS space. This wasn't the case 10 years ago when it had the whole world in the palm of its hand. Microsoft cannot afford to ignore technology that will give its x86 OS a competitive advantage. But if Ballmer is in charge, he could well choose to pocket the Intel bribe.
5 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 05/31/13 03:35:05 AM]
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i think if apple goes with AMD APU than we can see full power of kaveri coz mac OS is like a closed system built for a specific company's technology.
8 4 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 05:07:29 AM]
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Considering how many are using different OS than Microsoft in 2013, Mr. Ball(d)mer should not let such an opportunity pass.

Tablets have shown the world that alternatives to PC's exist when your needs are casual web browsing, communications and streaming. Samsung sells an Android notebook for $250 (not a success but still it's there and it's cheap). I mean, since I bought her an Asus TF pad & keyboard, I didn't had to fix my mom's Windows; she's not using it anymore. If it's true for my mom... must be the same for a lot of other grandmothers! This alone should put pressure on Microsoft...

Don't know about you guys, but looking at Kaveri specs immediatly makes me think about Valve and their Steambox project.
6 1 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 05/31/13 06:15:14 AM]
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For the consumer side. MS will side with the largest market X86 share holder every time. intel.
4 4 [Posted by: amdzorz  | Date: 05/31/13 11:17:50 AM]
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Very entertaining video I feel... dirty only from looking at Mr Ballder.
3 2 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 05/31/13 08:43:14 AM]
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It's time for AMD to sacrifice their descrete Graphics Cards business and start making middle and high end APUs with 8GB of 256bit 4channel GDDR5, yes, sales of AMD descrete Graphics Cards will decrease but sales of APUs will increase dramatically and total Revenue for AMD will be much higher.

AMD by making middle and high end APU will put Nvidia and Intel on their knees as no one will buy expensive CPUs + GPUs when there will be much cheaper and less energy consuming APU with similar performance and enough for modern gaming. Only Extremly expensive GPUs like 1000usd Titan or Radeon HD 7990 can be better than APUs but it's a very small market.

Also high-end APUs will allow to use 8GB or more of fast GDDR5 memory when even 1000usd Titan can use only 6GB. So future games optimized for 8GB or more of fast GDDR5 will be much better comparing with current games optimized for maximum 2-3GB video cards.

So high-end APUs is a way to go for AMD!!!
4 0 [Posted by: calzahe  | Date: 06/02/13 12:30:16 PM]
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2. 
GDDR5 chips are 16-bit in clamshell mode, and are point-to-point, which means only 8 chips are used with 128-bit bus.

8x2Gbit means only 2 Gigabytes of memory, 8x4Gbit means 4 Gigabytes of memory.

What am I missing here?

2 3 [Posted by: hkultala  | Date: 05/31/13 01:17:26 AM]
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Nothing. You are correct.
3 3 [Posted by: turtle  | Date: 05/31/13 01:29:48 AM]
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Kaveri must have 8GB of 4 channel 256bit GDDR5 - similar to what is inside PS4 - AMD has technogies to do it so it's time for AMD to be better than Intel!

If Liano and Trinity supported 4channel DDR3 and had at least 800 or more GPU cores then it would be much more competitive now especially in laptops.

Hope AMD will not miss their chance this time as Intel is not sitting idle...
6 0 [Posted by: calzahe  | Date: 05/31/13 06:23:49 AM]
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sorry friend but trinity with 800 or more VLIW4 GPU cores is not a good idea coz trinity's piledriver core and limited bandwidth will become a huge bottleneck.

7 5 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 06:43:08 AM]
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Trinity with 800 GPU cores and 4channel DDR3 would be much cheaper and would have longer battery life than any CPU + external GPU and would be enough for modern gaming so a lot of gamers would buy such laptops including me
AMD already waisted 3 years for 3 generations of APUs which are too weak for gaming and worse than Intel CPUs for any other tasks.

The only chance for AMD survival is to make APUs like in PS4 or better this year to grab some share from Intel otherwise next year Intel will catch up with GPUs and then it'll be game over for AMD...
1 0 [Posted by: calzahe  | Date: 05/31/13 01:29:19 PM]
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come onn frnd if amd made such 800 VLIW4 core APU than who will buy discrete gpu? that will be more painful for both AMD and NVIDIA.
and for sure mr. Huang(nvidia CEO) will throw stone on mr. Rory Read's(AMD CEO) car for doing this.
7 2 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/01/13 02:03:50 AM]
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good news for u -AMD’s head of marketing John Taylor told Chip maker AMD will sell a cut-down version of the custom chip it developed for the PS4. The APU from AMD won’t be quite as potent as the one destined for Sony’s console, but it will be very similar to the custom APU powering the PS4.
6 2 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/01/13 11:24:23 AM]
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actually 800 VLIW4 core APU will require massive bandwidth and notebooks with current 1600mhz ram can go only upto 25-26 GBps which is even insufficient for current A10 4600m this is the real problem,to make ur suggestion real friend AMD need to go with 1gb DDR5 sideport memory
7 1 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/01/13 02:09:25 AM]
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1.kaveri with 4 channel will increase the die size since its a SoC so cost will also increase.

2.DDR5 require point-to-point connection means it has to soldered which will not allow any future RAM upgrade.but this is not a problem in notebooks.

3.kaveri's stemrollar core have to atleast 30% powerful than trinity's piledriver core as i personally tested in some high-end games A10-4600 hitted the cpu boundries i.e. cpu bottleneck this is fact even AMD can't deny that. and kaveri's gpu is atleast 50% powerful than triniy.
6 1 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/05/13 01:11:52 PM]
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3. 
4Gb gddr5 is available...I don't understand why this keeps getting misreported.

In fact Hynix' new line of GDDR5 is currently only available in 4Gb, with 2Gb coming Q3-Q4 (around the time of Kaveri and one would assume the next AMD GPUs). Their 2Gb 7gbps currently available are binned from the older process at a higher voltage.

http://www.skhynix.com/in...272013_GraphicsMemory.pdf

Samsung, otoh, has both (2Gb/4Gb) available now in what would equate to something even better than the newer process from hynix. It's also probably super expensive. This is what is on (the reference model) GTX770 that clocks so well...wonder how long that lasts (especially when samsung starts binning 8Gbps around the time Hynix samples 2Gb 7gbps on their new process).

Point being, that speed and/or density comes at a high price right now, but it does exist, and given the speed of the ps4 we probably know which chips they are using (Hynix new-gen binned at 1.35v/5500mhz...almost certainly 4Gb because of release date being around the time 2Gb from Hynix will sample). I can only assume 4Gb was made the priority BECAUSE of things like Kaveri and the PS4 (on top of obviously to recoup the process change by charging more per chip because of density). As we move toward the end of the year (and Hynix is actually competitive at 2Gb as well) it should become cheaper as the two memory firms have both similar products and (hopefully) inventory built up.

You can call it a coincidence why ps4/kaveri/2Gb 7gbps AMD GPUs may launch around that time, or even why products using higher-density chips may launch first...but it's really just the reality of the situation. Samsung is more expensive than Hynix. Hynix is not making 2Gb yet, 4GB is being made by both. Hence all things equal, especially where beneficial, Hynix 4Gb will be popular from the outset.
7 2 [Posted by: turtle  | Date: 05/31/13 01:27:03 AM]
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4. 
The one question that hasn't been answered is will the FM2+ motherboard be backwards compatible with FM2 processors. We know Kaveri isn't backwards compatible with FM2 motherboards but there was no mention if FM2+ motherboards are backwards compatible with FM2 processors.


Kaveri looks to be a standout apu and i'm glad I've waited and skipped over trinity and richland esp now since we see that Kaveri isn't backwards compatible with FM2 motherboards.
3 3 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 05/31/13 01:27:48 AM]
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maybe Kaveri can work whit FM2 but without GDDR (and / or HSA)but on FM2+ it will have HSA whit DDR3 or GDDR5.
2 2 [Posted by: massau  | Date: 05/31/13 02:34:35 AM]
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I Think it's the other way around, you'll be able to use a Richland APU in an FM2+ board, but not a Kaveri in an old FM2 board.
3 0 [Posted by: Memristor  | Date: 05/31/13 07:40:57 AM]
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5. 
show the post
4 7 [Posted by: Tristan  | Date: 05/31/13 01:29:11 AM]
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without dedicated gpu intel's all cpu are total crap
don't waste money on intel cpu without dedicated gpu.
7 5 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 03:12:06 AM]
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show the post
3 6 [Posted by: amdzorz  | Date: 05/31/13 11:22:26 AM]
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@Tristan - If we were all in the same room, you'd cop a fair number of bruises - maybe the same number as the theoretical difference in frame rate between Kaveri and Haswell in Crysis. Kaveri is expected to have a general increased performance around 30%. And given that it will be made on sweetspot 28nm wafers, prices will be as always - much lower than Intel's.
5 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 05/31/13 03:24:31 AM]
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i don't see the problem having a new motherboard with all the feature that are coming with kaveri.compared to intel that force you to change to a new motherboard for every new generation Cpu without any real reason for it.
3 2 [Posted by: Amir Anuar  | Date: 05/31/13 04:52:26 AM]
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6. 
show the post
0 11 [Posted by: JeanieOwen11  | Date: 05/31/13 04:45:28 AM]
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7. 
Difference between intel and AMD –
Intel ‘s software development tool cost =1000$+
AMD ‘s software development tool cost =0$
coz AMD is dedicated to make a better and open world for both rich and poor.
13 4 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 04:53:15 AM]
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I agree. AMD is an ethical company. How you get there is more important than winning itself.
9 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 05/31/13 06:16:34 AM]
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8. 
AMD Kaveri is nothing less than a miracle-
Gflops is measure of computer’s raw performance,while actual performance differs due to software ecosystem.
In 2008 AMD made History by breaking the 1TERAFLOPS Barrier with HD 4870 1,200 GFLOPS(nearest competitor nvidia gtx280=622.1 GFLOPS and overpriced+takes twice the power) and become the world’s first company who made single silicon of more than 1Teraflops compute power.
Now in 2013 AMD is going to made History “AGAIN” by Kaveri with total computational power of more than 1TERAFLOPS and the biggest thing is Kaveri is not a GPU it’s a SoC with Heterogeneous capability when intel and nvidia only thinking about that, AMD already did it- this is even bigger achievement than what did in 2008.
AND only a few persons knows that in 2011 AMD successfully made a SoC with 3D-Stacked RAM which is still in future roadmap of intel and nvidia.
This is what we call AMD

AMD faces a bad time due to it’s poor management but now things are changed new CEO Rory Read is doing nice,cpu guy Jim Keller and king of GPU Raja Koduri is now back at AMD.Now "AMD is Back In Game".
13 4 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 05:05:14 AM]
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Dont forget the stellar performance of the A64s back in 2003 and 2004, with their X86-64 extention, and then first ever true (single die, arch level) dual-cores in 2005-2006. FX-60 anyone? yeah, THAT beast.

Meanwhile Intel was right into bribing the whole channel into not selling AMD chips. Intel are crooks, don't give them your money.
5 4 [Posted by: mw200380051  | Date: 05/31/13 10:02:10 AM]
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9. 
Kaveri is good and will change the PC landscape forever. As far as requiring socket FM2 this is no surprise as AMD stated in 2012 that they would be using FM2 for quite some time.
6 4 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 05/31/13 06:49:54 AM]
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You missed the point completely - Kaveri can't use FM2, it requires FM2+.
2 2 [Posted by: neal.a.nelson  | Date: 05/31/13 07:56:47 AM]
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So I forgot to add the + sigh. Sue me.
4 3 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 05/31/13 09:13:15 AM]
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ha ha ha
7 3 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 05/31/13 10:09:18 AM]
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Anyway, during the life span of AM3/3+ sockets, Intel used sockets, LGA775, 1156, 1155 & 2011.

3 1 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 05/31/13 08:51:24 AM]
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Yup Intel exploits consumers every chance they get and the suckers love it
6 5 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 05/31/13 09:14:16 AM]
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show the post
2 5 [Posted by: amdzorz  | Date: 05/31/13 11:15:02 AM]
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Because I can afford it, I also tend to buy the best performing option, but this is not everyones case. In most case, for average users/consumers, 10 to 15% better performance won't justify paying 30 to 50% more.
1 1 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 06/03/13 10:44:24 AM]
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not just AMD3 and AMD3+, AM2 was still available.

Intel LGA775, lasted for a very long time. almost 7 years.
3 1 [Posted by: kailrusha  | Date: 06/01/13 06:18:42 PM]
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10. 
Heterogeneous sounds so cool. Cant waith for new soc-s.
I remember when geforce 3ti and radeon 8500 was released and reviewers said thath its pity that that power cant be used for general purpose computing and now ... :D
4 3 [Posted by: kingpin  | Date: 05/31/13 08:02:22 AM]
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11. 
Wintel marriage does not exist anymore since Intel switched to Android.
2 0 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 06/01/13 11:08:31 PM]
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12. 
The amount of fanboism on this site is getting ridiculous. From both sides. Someone needs to ban those idiots. Seriously.
2 1 [Posted by: TAViX  | Date: 06/02/13 12:48:27 AM]
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yes ,worse than the nazis.
0 1 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 06/02/13 06:18:12 AM]
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I agree, I consider myself being neutral most of the time. After all, todays winners might be tomorrows losers.

When buying computer hardware, I appreciate performance, innovation, value, accessibility and reliability, from whoever build it.

It's not and never was about brands, but about finding the best solution for your needs.
0 1 [Posted by: MHudon  | Date: 06/03/13 10:51:51 AM]
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