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Although Intel Core i-series “Haswell” microprocessors have a number of advantages over predecessors when it comes to overclocking, retail versions of the chips are not as good overclockers as pre-production versions of the chip. According to manufacturers of factory overclocked PCs, commercial versions of Intel Core i7-4770K cannot remain stable at speeds achievable by samples of the product. Intel admits: overclocking results are not guaranteed.

“There is a big difference in the overclocking potential between early Haswell samples and retail [chips],” said one representative for a PC maker, in a conversation with PCPro web-site.

Four enthusiast PC makers from the U.K., who supply personal computers with factory-overclocked microprocessors told PCPro web-site that retail versions of Core i-series 4000-family “Haswell” central processing units have not been able to match the clock-rates seen on pre-production models, which Intel provides to manufacturers for testing before the official launch. It is unclear whether samples of Haswell were specifically binned more thoroughly than retail products, or Intel has changed certain production/packaging methods for final microprocessors.

"PCs based on pre-production [speeds] of 4.5GHz have had to be dropped to 4.3GHz because of a lack of stability in retail parts,” said a representative for another PC manufacturer.

Another concern for PC makers is that retail versions of Intel Core i “Haswell” chips when overclocked are around 15°C hotter than pre-production samples as well as hotter compared to previous-generation Core i “Ivy Bridge” products that were made using the same 22nm process technology even at default clock-speeds.

“The overclocking experience will vary from CPU to CPU, and from generation to generation, due to many different factors and we cannot guarantee a specific frequency. We continue to add new and exciting overclocking capabilities and we expect enthusiasts to be pleased with the unlocked fourth generation Core i processors,” said a spokesman for Intel.

Tags: Intel, Core, Haswell, 22nm, Ivy Bridge

Discussion

Comments currently: 74
Discussion started: 06/07/13 12:02:00 PM
Latest comment: 07/17/13 03:48:49 PM
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1. 
cheating or not?
intel give different chips for benchmarking and different chips for consumers...

now intel proves who they are and why they fined over 1 billion dollar for cheating with AMD.
last time intel cheated with their competitor AMD but now they cross limit they r cheating with their own consumers why intel why we know intel is superior in x86 there is no need to do such ****.
this simply proves - intel is not a fair company.

i think intel should make new logo-"INTEL CHEATING INSIDE".

so frnds decide this is cheating with us or not?
24 4 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/07/13 12:02:00 PM]
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From 3rd generation Ivy Bridge onward, Intel compromised CPU manufacturing quality which is evident through high temperature and poor overclock ability. It seems there is some problem with Intel's Tri-gate 22nm manufacturing process. There 1st generation Nehalem 45nm and 2nd generation Sandy Bridge 32nm are all one of the best CPUs ever. But now it seems its all over. Intel is diluting quality for more revenue these days. Consumers gets cheated by all this.
9 1 [Posted by: tks  | Date: 06/08/13 04:04:39 AM]
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Yes me too think that way.
4 1 [Posted by: spp  | Date: 06/08/13 04:19:53 AM]
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I haven't seen any official Result Between Ivy Bridge and Haswell when they are overclock. The only source so far is from PCpro. I just want to see if Xbitlabs can provide soon thier review as confirmation.
0 0 [Posted by: kailrusha  | Date: 06/09/13 09:09:27 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:43:55 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:44:09 AM]
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Yes, Intel is "screwing the consumer."

The enthusiast consumer. Intel is running a *business* however, and the majority of their customers want mobile chips; first and foremost. High-end mobile parts *need* to be low-voltage, low-heat parts - the same silicon that's best suited for overclocking. It should be very telling that 128MB eDRAM Iris Pro is only available to mobile, with only one OEM-only solder-only "desktop" chip.

As they ramp up Haswell and scale back Ivy Bridge production, volume and yields will improve, and we'll get better desktop overclockers out of Intel.

They've forgotten about enthusiasts, and should be condemned for loosing their heritage, but my point is: Give it time; there's no "cheating conspiracy" going on here. This is just Econ 101 supply and demand.
1 0 [Posted by: Brian Cappello  | Date: 06/08/13 02:15:52 PM]
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Apart from the growing mobile market that Intel are increasingly focusing on, the other reason enthusiasts lose out here is because Intel can afford to use their dominant position at the high end.
They know a little less overclocking headroom/higher heat doesn't change the decision of someone looking for top CPU performance above other considerations like price.
Unfortunately for us all, AMD aren't pushing Intel to offer something better like they did a few years ago;
Now Intel probably find better profitability putting the best binned chips into premium mobile products as enthusiasts are still buying the fastest available desktop CPUs.
0 0 [Posted by: BushLin  | Date: 07/02/13 11:17:11 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:44:21 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:44:38 AM]
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Nope. Working as designed. Overclocking is not part of the retail package. Only a perk. It is like telling Citroen you blew up your car after adding a turbo and blaming them for it...
1 0 [Posted by: amdzorz  | Date: 06/10/13 10:58:49 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:43:38 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:44:54 AM]
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2. 
+1 mudi, this is interesting, hopefully other sites can pick this up and alert users as well.
6 2 [Posted by: medo  | Date: 06/07/13 12:11:05 PM]
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frnd, i think i should check my i7's benchmark with websites benchmark in same environment, who knows intel already did it with us without our knowledge.
7 2 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/07/13 02:01:58 PM]
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3. 
Fortunaltelly to users, prices remain stable and high
9 0 [Posted by: Tristan  | Date: 06/07/13 12:32:07 PM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:45:10 AM]
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4. 
The Intel shill is technically clueless.

Virtually everyone who has reviewed Haswell has acknowledge that all it brings is a minute improvement in CPU performance and that the laptop version has a nice bump in GPU performance. The reviewers were kind enough to not state that Haswell is a lateral move for Intel's product line much like Ivy Bridge is. Very weak improvements in performance even with the smaller node and FinFET technology.

BTW FinFET is what's causing the heat issues just as it does with Ivy Bridge. Intel abandoned the FinFet process used on Ivy Bridge because of the heat issues and now Haswell with a new FinFET process still has heat issues. Intel is not looking too good these days in the CPU/APU biz.
4 5 [Posted by: beenthere  | Date: 06/07/13 03:11:16 PM]
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The other reason I think Haswell could be guff compared to Ivy Bridge is the power consumption figures.
Every review I've seen for Haswell uses Windows 8 for testing, this ensures new power states are being utilised and as such they certainly show lower consumption.

However, what happens under Windows 7 when these power states aren't used?
Do we see figures closer to Ivy bridge?

Not we find the tests were carried out on samples which don't represent the final product, in the end is there any difference at all to the average user compared to Ivy Bridge?
0 0 [Posted by: BushLin  | Date: 07/02/13 10:58:28 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:45:27 AM]
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5. 
So what does that mean? everyone look for Core i7 4770k QS aka ES samples to appear on ebay and snatch them up.
1 1 [Posted by: SteelCity1981  | Date: 06/07/13 03:24:49 PM]
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6. 
Hey "amdsucks", you're a complete moron!!! I'm ok with you being an Intel fanboi (and deaf, blind and stupid), but pull your head out of your ass!!! AMD blow Intel CPUs away in TOTAL performance! Haswell is the first CPU that will compete with AMD, but it won't even do that well when Kaveri shows up in 5 months! The best bang for your buck is still AMD!

Intel Cheating Inside is RIGHT!!!
3 5 [Posted by: bigbrave  | Date: 06/07/13 09:34:51 PM]
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7. 
Will someone please block "Amdsucks" and his stupid comments. He's a true idiot, well he is an Intel sheep!
7 5 [Posted by: bigbrave  | Date: 06/07/13 09:39:34 PM]
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Don't bother him.He is a paid TROLLER. He gets his energy by other people's hatred and quarreling with him.

Best thing we can do is just ignore him completely not even bothering to down vote him....
5 5 [Posted by: tks  | Date: 06/08/13 04:13:13 AM]
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Sorry was away for a while, I took out the trash now. everything back in order.

2 2 [Posted by: vanakkuty  | Date: 06/10/13 08:32:45 AM]
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thank you very much frnd but i think this guy will not stop and will start his acts using different id as he is a paid guy.
6 2 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 06/11/13 12:25:52 AM]
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I don't doubt it, but it doesn't take more than 2 clicks to ban and erase all the posts 'it' tries to post.

Taking all that trouble to post so many of them only to be erased by us in just one click is surely going to be wasting the troll's time whilst being of not much value to the one paying for all this.

1 1 [Posted by: vanakkuty  | Date: 06/11/13 06:41:16 AM]
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8. 
Intel seems to have adopted the same "good enough" bean counting philosophy that has infected Apple post Jobs. Very disappointing.
8 2 [Posted by: beck2448  | Date: 06/08/13 04:47:37 AM]
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9. 
Scandalous. This will hurt their brand. The Intel marketing department won't be able to spin the company out of this one.
7 2 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 06/08/13 07:00:56 AM]
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Hurt their brand? This isn't a conspiracy or an injustice, overclockers are nothing in comparison to regular folks and corporations that buy OEM which are the majority of sales. I don't know why some enthusiasts brainwash themselves into thinking they are owed for staying loyal, but this is business and nothing personal. All an unlocked model means to them is just another SKU with a premium, it has nothing to do with potential or temperatures; we are on our own. You only paid Intel for the unlocked multiplier raising it past 4x of non-K regulars, that is it.

Besides, the only way to really hurt a brand is to go elsewhere, so what's the alternative? AMD has yet to match on an IPC level and all they can do is debut higher frequencies-- which is great for the non-overclocking majority, but not for us. The ARM and console threat to PC is only going after systems already used for their roles, not high-end systems.

You guys need to put you money where you mouth is if you want to complain since these companies will only hear you if you threaten their revenue. Resist upgrade; if not, stop complaining because not even Intel cares if there is no threat. We can't wait for AMD forever, we got to make our own moves.
1 2 [Posted by: lehpron  | Date: 06/08/13 09:36:21 AM]
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Yeah, that's the spirit. Passive resistance. Don't buy Intel. Ghandi wouldn't. Send them to the brink and break them like a real consumer to get proper gating.

@lehpron - you've missed the point. The point is that you cannot trust Intel when it gives it's best bins to Tomshardware, Anandtech, Intel$$$4+review, etc. It is called misleading advertising. This is nothing new to the WinTel hedgemony from what I've seen through the 90s until now. That's why you'll find most people here support the alternative. But it doesn't mean we are uncritical of AMD also. Early specs of 5Ghz Richland Centurion with reported 220Watt TDP got an absolute pasting on this forum.
6 1 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 06/08/13 09:13:02 PM]
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10. 
looks like im keeping my sandy bridge-E
6 0 [Posted by: Vincent Hooi  | Date: 06/08/13 07:44:24 PM]
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Whereas I'm looking to upgrade to Kaveri with HSA. Will work a treat with Handbrake.
4 0 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 06/08/13 11:50:23 PM]
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11. 
I don't think that finFET lithography is the real problem! Truth they didn't optimize it in last year because they think they are all mighty & superior! The real problem is termal dispatcher cover introduced in Ivy Bridge generation. Combine this with a bigger GPU part that is operating on bigger frequency & you will get to same conclusion! I hope that AMD will after all see that the X86 processor's time is past & adopt arm or yet even better MIPS! VIA did this & they loo end socs are even more competitive (price/performance index) then Chinese ones!
AMD really need to adapt & start supporting Linux development & community! Intel all redi did this & results are showing in developing of open source Intel GPU driver's! The future of computing is certainly based on many cores arhitekture & best suited well developed arhitekture for this is MIPS! Yust to remember all of you fan boy's that wi cud have all of this i am talking about a decade ago bat Intels monopoly didn't allowed it! If you think AMD is a ethical player well think again!

This is a really may critical conclusion & it's based on facts! You don't have to like it bat that don't change much. All things that i didn't put wright or are not correct I will gladly admit that i was wrong!
0 0 [Posted by: Zola  | Date: 06/09/13 04:40:48 AM]
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12. 
So intel has smaller TDP than AMD but heat disipation is much bigger.

I would buy AMD FX with 10 cores at 3GHZ , wish it would have 95 or 65 TDP. Just saying.

Well , i can wish , cant i .?.
0 2 [Posted by: kingpin  | Date: 06/09/13 05:29:13 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:47:35 AM]
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Sounds like an Opteron 4386 (8 cores, 3.1-3.8GHz, 95W, $400) or 6348 (12 cores, 2.8-3.4GHz, 115W, $700)…
0 0 [Posted by: WulfTheSaxon  | Date: 07/17/13 03:48:49 PM]
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13. 
actually the higher power is because of the voltage regulators. they also have more transistors on the die. BUT they shouldn't have given these cherry picked samples. there process is probably optimised for power consumption at lower and lower leakage but this also means larger power consumption per switch. the end result is an efficient chips at lower voltage (like <0.7V or so in idle) and clock but a bad chip for desktop and servers.
intel also disabled TSX and virtual parts in the K series which could have helped with performance.
0 0 [Posted by: massau  | Date: 06/09/13 07:05:33 AM]
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14. 
Sandy Bridge was the last mainstream Intel CPU that was actually worth something.
I seriously hope AMD CPUs offer good performance when next-gen games start to show up, because I do not really want to stay with Intel.
3 0 [Posted by: Harry Lloyd  | Date: 06/10/13 04:33:25 AM]
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Agree. But to be honest that is also the fault of AMD not providing a competitive CPU for the GAMING crowd, which let's be honest, is more than 75% of those who buy a new desktop CPU nowadays.
3 0 [Posted by: TAViX  | Date: 06/10/13 06:54:25 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:47:09 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:46:13 AM]
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agreed
0 0 [Posted by: mudi1  | Date: 07/07/13 02:46:32 AM]
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15. 
So would the improved GPU be responsible for higher temps, along with finfet ??

I cant for the life of me understand why intel even bother including a GPU with 'enthusiast'/high end desktop parts, most anyone who buys them uses a discrete GPU

It might be great for use in laptops but on the desktop the consumer should be given a choice, but that will never happen because it would cost more and intel are in the habit of telling the consumer what they want, not the other way round
0 0 [Posted by: alpha0ne  | Date: 06/10/13 11:01:25 PM]
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