Sony Computer Entertainment’s next-generation video game system is reportedly code-named Orbis and is projected to be very powerful. But the new console, which is expected to be out in 2013, will not play currently available games and will lose compatibility with used games in general.
Based on what is currently known about the PlayStation 4 is that it is based on a microprocessor and a graphics processing unit (GPU) designed by Advanced Micro Devices. Apparently, those chips will be powerful enough to support video games in 4096*2160 (4K) resolution and video games in stereo-3D mode in 1920*1080 (1080p) resolution, according to a report from Kotaku web-site.
Since there are not a lot of 4K screens at the moment, the next-generation PlayStation “Orbis” appears to be intended for games that will shine starting from several years down the road. Apparently, the PlayStation 4 may be an even more ambitious endeavor than the PlayStation 3 in case of capabilities. But at the same time it is expected that its development will not be as expensive as that of the PS3.
But the PS4 "Orbis" will have a number of compromises: it will not be compatible with PlayStation 2 or PlayStation 3 titles and it will not be exactly friendly with pre-owned/used games. Apparently, each particular Blu-ray game disc will be tied to a particular PSN account. A good thing is that if a disc becomes obsolete, the system should allow digital download, which means that it will sport a pretty large hard drive.
An indirect confirmation to the fact that Orbis game console from Sony does exist in plans is that SCE’s developer web-site already knows the name and orbis.scedev.net leads to the front-page of the SCE DevNet web-site, something that does not happen in case of a random name.
It is presently expected that the PlayStation 4 “Orbis” is on track for release for the holiday season in late 2013.
Sony Computer Entertainment did not comment on the news-story.
Tags: Orbis, Sony, Playstation, AMD, Radeon
Comments currently:
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Discussion started: 03/28/12 04:02:35 PM
Latest comment: 07/24/12 07:22:05 PM
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"But the PS3 will have a number of compromises: it will not be compatible with PlayStation 2 or PlayStation 3 titles and it will not be exactly friendly with pre-owned/used games."
So the PS3 is not comarible with PS3 titles?
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Posted by: SteelCity1981
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Date: 03/28/12 04:02:35 PM]
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That makes sense for 4 reasons:
1) Hardware differences -> New Graphics vendor
PS3 = NV GPU. PS4 = AMD GPU. The CPU for PS4 is also rumored to become X86 and not a more modern version of the Cell. As such, backwards compatibility would be extremely difficult to achieve properly.
2) Cost
From #1, to provide proper backwards compatibility would require actual physical hardware from PS3 (think fat PS3 with PS2's synthesizer, etc.). Since most people buy a new console to play next generation games, I am sure they'd take a $100 less expensive PS4 over backwards compatibility.
3) Potential revenue
Sony can sell the best PS3 titles on its Sony Playstation Network to people who have never previously owned a PS3. That's a new revenue stream that would be around for years and years. It's the smarter way to provide people with access to PS3's game library. Also, gives the option to remaster PS3's greatest games.
4) Historical lack of success with backwards compatibility
Xbox360 has poor Xbox1 compatibility and PS3 also wasn't great at it. The best way to ensure 100% backwards compatibility is to keep your PS3
Chances are in 2015, you will not want to play 7-8 year old PS3 games too often. Why else would you buy a new console for $500?
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/28/12 05:03:56 PM]
Excellent post.
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Posted by: turtle
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Date: 03/28/12 08:29:48 PM]
Um the part where it said ps3 won't be compatible with ps3 games doesn't make sense.
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Posted by: SteelCity1981
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Date: 03/29/12 08:20:12 AM]
He is stating that the PS4 would need hardware from PS3 to insure backwards compatibility. Not that the PS3 needs hardware from itself.
Correct me if I read the wrong part of the post that you were speaking about. This all being of course based on the fact that it is not just an "upgraded cell"
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Posted by: llkuruptll
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Date: 03/29/12 10:54:00 AM]
Exactly. We have already seen PS3 face problems with backwards compatibility with PS2 games because of the Cell+NV graphics combo. Now they are going from Cell+NV to X64 CPU+AMD. That's just going to create as many problems.
Also, I think Sony has realized how much $ they can make reselling the entire PS3 library. Not only will they save $ on not having to include PS3's hardware in PS4, but they can actually make more $ from gamers by selling digital copies of all PS3 games.
One of the major weaknesses of PS3's was its initial high launch price and despite launching 1 year later it didn't really offer better graphics than the Xbox 360. Now Sony can take the $ saved from BC and be more aggressive with new console pricing OR spend more $ towards hardware that actually matters for PS4 (more RAM, SSD, better GPU, etc.)
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 05:11:43 PM]
still has nothing to do with the screw up that was written hence should have been ps4 won't be compatible with ps3 titles not ps3 won't be compatible with ps3 titles.
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Posted by: SteelCity1981
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Date: 03/30/12 02:37:09 PM]
He means there is a typo
BTW i think you must hate sony for using AMD
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Posted by: madooo12
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Date: 04/02/12 02:53:53 AM]
Ya, everyone got his point that the original article had a typo!
Not sure who you were referring to for hating Sony for using AMD. AMD's GPUs are pretty good. Using AMD CPUs though I am less thrilled about but the alternative would have involved using a hard to code for Cell or paying an arm and a leg for Intel's CPUs.
The fact that consoles gamers don't really care for 60 fps in FPS and that they don't play strategy games or MMOs means less reason to have the fastest possible CPU for games. For consoles, GPU speed, amount of RAM and VRAM will become a quicker bottleneck than CPU speed.
What matters more is what kind of GPU they are going to use. If they put some junk such as HD7750 in there, I'll be super disappointed. While GCN isn't as power efficient or as fast as Kepler, as long as they put at least an HD7850 in there, it'll be good.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 04/02/12 01:26:27 PM]
A 7850, really?
In terms of GPU's, nothing that new, powerful or expensive will be in any of the next consoles.
The PS3's GPU cost them $70 per unit when the PS3 was new(compared to $230 or so for a 7850. cheaper by q3-q4 2013 but still...). The CPU was $230 and Blue Ray player was $350.
http://www.engadget.com/2...00-sez-merrill-lynch-mob/
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Posted by: Sketchy
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Date: 04/28/12 05:04:17 PM]
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Please tell me there is nothing to backup that that thing will be the next controller. It looks like a pain to use compared to what we have now.
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Posted by: daneren2005
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Date: 03/28/12 04:57:13 PM]
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4K Resolution Games?! Yeah, sure. Both Sony and MS claimed 1080p games for PS3 and 360, but in reality majority of games don't even render at 720p, let alone 1080p.
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Posted by: eddman
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Date: 03/28/12 05:11:30 PM]
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"powerful enough to support video games in 4096*2160 (4K) resolution"
Simply means GPU can output this resolution, thus it supports 4K.
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Posted by: PsiAmp
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Date: 03/28/12 09:31:49 PM]
If a game is not rendered at 4K, but upscaled, then it's NOT a 4k game, no matter how you spin it.
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Posted by: eddman
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Date: 03/29/12 11:17:04 AM]
Exactly. Same way current consoles hardly can be called HD because ~25% of the games are rendered in less than 1280x720. E.g. CoD series games are rendered in pathetic 1024x600.
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Posted by: PsiAmp
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Date: 03/29/12 03:07:46 PM]
I don't think they are stating that games will run at 4K resolutions. I think it means that PS4 will be compatible with next generation 4K televisions as a result of this standard feature in all Southern Islands GPUs. It's obviously not realistic for PS4 to play next generation games at 4K resolutions when today we need 2x HD7950 in CF to pull this off in today's games!
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 05:15:17 PM]
Current PC mainstream video cards can do this resolution if they allowed it, what makes you think the PS4's video card wont? Especially since it is going to use off-the-shelf graphics.
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Posted by: Xacto01
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Date: 05/10/12 10:27:25 AM]
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Sony managers and CEO are completely out of their mind.
Playstation4 is going to be a huge failure.
AMD CPUs are the worst to choose now. If they wanted to go x86 the only obvious option was Intel CPUs. Getting AMD is just plain dumb.
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Posted by: chojin999
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Date: 03/29/12 03:05:11 AM]
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Well Intel's CPUs are superior but they also cost a lot more $. If faced with a choice between a $500 console with a $100 AMD CPU and a $200 AMD graphics card or a $200 Intel CPU and a $100 videocard, which route would you have taken?
Recall how much more powerful the Cell CPU is over the Xbox360 CPU. That didn't allow PS3 to have much better looking games than the 360. This is because most console games are primarily GPU limited.
On the PC, we have MMOs and RTS games which are massively CPU dependent since they are usually dual-threaded at most. Also, since we prefer to play games at 60 fps or higher, CPU speed matters more for us to maintain higher minimums. As most console games run at 30 fps, they only require adequate CPU speed. The main bottlenecks for consoles tend to be RAM, VRAM the GPU speed since they last 7-8 years.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 08:18:35 AM]
you sound foolish chojin999.. read the post again before you go on a rant...AMD GPU...GPU definately does not mean CPU
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Posted by: llkuruptll
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Date: 03/29/12 10:42:13 AM]
He is right. PS4 is currently rumored to have AMD CPU. If you go to the source of this article directly:
http://kotaku.com/5896996...-say-here-are-the-details
From Kotaku:
Orbis Specs:
- AMD x64 CPU
- AMD Southern Islands GPU
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 05:18:09 PM]
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4K resolution for an Angry Bird game.
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Posted by: zodiacfml
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Date: 03/29/12 03:39:11 AM]
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Probably GPU would be based on AMD's GCN architecture, that will do 4k resolution just fine..........
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Posted by: tks
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Date: 03/29/12 06:23:12 AM]
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2013 and onward games will be more graphically intensive, so they most probably won't be rendered at 4k.
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Posted by: eddman
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Date: 03/29/12 11:18:55 AM]
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4096*2160 is 8K pixels ... right?
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Posted by: redhavoc
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Date: 03/29/12 10:02:58 AM]
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8847k pixels
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Posted by: llkuruptll
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Date: 03/29/12 10:47:26 AM]
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Posted by: eddman
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Date: 03/29/12 03:08:34 PM]
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AMD CPUs are great for games, less warming than Intel.Even today Phenom II 955 enough for all games.
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Posted by: Blackcode
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Date: 03/29/12 02:21:05 PM]
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The fact that AMD's CPUs run cooler does not make them better. Actually, Intel's CPUs are faster and consume less power. They have better performance/watt and better performance in CPU limited games.
Unfortunately, most multi-core CPUs that Intel sells are simply too expensive to be suitable for a $400-500 console. Even their cheapest quad-core at the moment, i5-2300 is $180. Sony would be better off pairing a $100 CPU and a $200 GPU.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 05:21:30 PM]
Yes and Intel + Radeon will be good
combination,but probably will be high scalar APU.It is well known that the APU is not heated much.
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Posted by: Blackcode
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Date: 03/30/12 01:30:29 AM]
for a console, a cooler CPU would be better
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Posted by: madooo12
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Date: 04/02/12 10:17:32 AM]
You could drop the temperatures of a modern CPU by 20*C by just installing a better after market cooler. The statement itself is ambiguous. Regardless, if given the option, a 70*C Ivy Bridge would be a lot better than a 50*C Bulldozer. Intel's CPUs function at much higher temperatures but they still consume A LOT less power and are much faster for games.
Unfortunately their cheapest quads are $180+, which makes them too expensive for consoles. If the console makers desired a cheap 4-6 core CPU, then AMD would deliver. The sad part is that not even an FX-6100 can beat a Core i3 CPU in games, while an FX8150 is downright pathetic against an i5-2400.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 04/03/12 06:11:37 AM]
9.
If the PS4 is going to have a 64-bit AMD CPU as the Kotaku post claims, then it looks like SONY has gone the way of the original XBOX in terms of the CPU; using an off-the-shelf PC CPU to fabricate a custom console version. This could be really good for developers as they will have an easier time optimizing games for the PS4 due to familiarity of developing for the x86 instruction set. The previous generations of PlayStation consoles were a nightmare to develop for since they used RISC- and PowerPC-based CPUs. It might also be good for PC gamers with AMD hardware since PS4-to-PC ports will most likely be better optimized for AMD hardware from the get-go.
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Posted by: DirectXtreme
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Date: 03/29/12 04:27:39 PM]
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Agreed. Maybe they can do a custom design such as Trinity or Kaveri CPU and somehow allow the GPU inside to Crossfire with a dedicated graphics card. That would be incredible. Imagine free 8AA courtesy of the APU alone while the GPU does everything else. The Xbox360 had a custom eDRAM that helped it with anti-aliasing. They can get pretty creative with custom designs.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/29/12 05:24:31 PM]
If they do go AMD for CPU and GPU then i hope its not a CPU+IGP... and they go for a CPU+ Dedicated GPU stuck on the PS4 motherboard.
That way they can at least use a HD7770 with a 256bit memory bus and high overclock as the 28nm process would have matured allot by the end of 2013
Or they maybe even going for a HD7850...
OR AMD maybe working on a new CPU+IGP HD7000 series product. allot can change in 1 and a half years.
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Posted by: vid_ghost
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Date: 03/29/12 09:15:20 PM]
Agreed. If it's an APU, that's a disaster imho. The fastest APU by 2013 won't even outperform an HD7770. How is that supposed to last them 8-10 years? The fact that consoles now span 8-10 years across a generation means no matter what they put in there, we are bound to be disappointed.
If we assume that GPU speed increases at a very conservative 50% every 2 years, then by March 2014, we'll have at minimum a GPU that's 50% faster than GTX680 (most likely have such GPU way before).
Right now, a GTX680 is already 2.66x faster than HD7770 at 1080P:
http://www.computerbase.d...schnitt_leistung_mit_aaaf
That means by the time PS4 launches, our top of the line GPU in 2014 will be at least 4x faster than HD7770 (2.66x 1.5). Now extend this GPU progression to 2022 (8-9 year lifespan).
By 2014, a top of the line GPU will be at least 4x faster than HD7770 x 1.5x increase every 2 years (will happen 4 times by 2022) ==> 4*(1.5^4) =
20x faster than HD7770 by 2022.
Unless they manage to put at least an HD7870 in there by 2013-2014, most of us will be extremely disappointed. Their problem is by 2013-2014, HD7970/GTX680 will only be mid-range GPUs and HD7870 will be low-end.
Having 10-year console life cycles is the worst thing to happen to the PC.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/30/12 06:51:57 AM]
For a console, you can programe the hardware much more directly. In the PC world even a Sandy Bridge faster than any current gen console. The problem is the API.
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Posted by: zorg
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Date: 03/30/12 07:56:45 AM]
That's a good point zorg. Still, Xbox360 and PS3 had pretty solid GPUs for their time. They were upper-mid range to high-end (for 360). The only GPUs faster at the time were the G80 family (8800GTS320/640, and 8800GTX).
By 2013-2014, something like an HD7970/GTX680 will only be mid-range. So if they put an HD7770, that's worse than the GPUs in the last console generation relative to what we had on the PC.
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Posted by: BestJinjo
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Date: 03/30/12 12:09:13 PM]
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The program designers at Epic will be disapointed.
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Posted by: Lounds
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Date: 04/02/12 07:05:43 AM]
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There is too much competition between Sony and MS for either of them to go with a sub-par GPU on the hardware front. However, the 8+ year lifespans of consoles on the same hardware force the programmers to code more efficiently to make the most of the power available, something that PC equivalents are not forced to do. They eke every last drop of potential out of the GPUs on consoles, something your rarely see happen with PC GPUs as the market for hardware moves so much faster.
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Posted by: Doom
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Date: 04/08/12 01:54:01 AM]
12.
Anyone cares to speculate on what type of hardware is gonna find its way into PS4? My best guess would be highly modified Piledriver platform on a 32nm SOI, possibly up to 8 cores (4 with 2x integer ALUs each) and 4 Southern Islands 7700 class cores or 2 7800 class cores (whichever has better TDP characteristics in a single FM2 socket uPGA package) sharing up to 2GB of DDR5 at 1.2GHz on a 128bit (x4) or 265bit (x2) bus (theoretical throughput around... 320GB/s?). I'm just speculating here BTW... read: drooling LOL
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Posted by: MyK
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Date: 04/12/12 09:56:04 AM]
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As long as it hits 3ghz or close. But yah, intel is better than amd. As far as cost i dont care, as long as long as have a good console for next 5 to 6, so im saving up my money just in case. A friend of mine said theres a rumor xbox will be more powerfull. I dont know, but whatever happened to nintendo, arr they like completly out of the game? Anyways, these next sytems better get a miracle deal for cores. Peace.
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Posted by: trent16
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Date: 04/19/12 05:34:17 AM]
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who gives a fk wats in them as long as they play high quality games. stop being geeks and just enjoy the machinery that we currently enjoy. simplez,,,
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Posted by: fkitanywayz
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Date: 07/24/12 07:22:05 PM]
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