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Sony Computer Entertainment has reportedly started to ship second-generation PlayStation 4 “Orbis” hardware development kits to game designers. The system is mostly based on off-the-shelf personal computer components, confirming that Sony has fundamentally changed the development approach for its consoles.

In total, four generations of next-gen PlayStation development kits are planned, reports VG247 web-site. The first kit was essentially just a graphics card; the second-generation development kit is a modified PC featuring AMD A10 accelerated processing unit as well as graphics card, 8GB or 16GB of RAM and so on; third-generation kit is projected to emerge early next year and will be considerably closer to the final specification of the console; the fourth-generation development kit is expected to be released next summer and will essentially be the PlayStation 4 “Orbis” in flesh.

While no exact details are known about the final specs of the next-gen Sony console, it is reported that it will be based on a derivative from AMD’s Trinity accelerated processing unit. The difference between the PS4/Orbis APU and AMD A10 is not clear. What is evident is that Sony wants to make its next-gen video game system affordable to manufacture and easy to develop for.

The eventual target for the hardware is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D without problems, which will result a machine that is powerful enough for today and tomorrow’s market. To make the system even more future-proof, earlier it was reported that it would support 4K (3840*2160) ultra high-definition video playback. It is logical to expect Sony to adopt a custom Trinity APU as the central processing unit with heterogeneous processing capabilities and utilize AMD’s next-generation Sea Islands graphics architecture to ensure usage of leading-edge graphics technology when the console hits the market. Such approach not only guarantees that the PS4 will employ the most advanced technologies possible, but also ensures that the manufacturing cost of the system will not be ultra-high.

VG247 reports that game developers expect PlayStation 4 “Orbis” to feature Blu-ray drive, 256GB local storage, WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. The machine is projected to be designed to accept system and product updates in the background, just like modern tablets and smartphones. Essentially, the PS4 will be the always-connected console.

Sony did not comment on the news-story.

Tags: Orbis, Sony, Playstation, AMD, Radeon, Fusion, Trinity, Sea Islands, UHD


Comments currently: 198
Discussion started: 11/02/12 01:34:39 AM
Latest comment: 01/15/13 07:37:18 PM
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Intel not inside? How could that be?

"PS4 will employ the most advanced technologies possible"

That's why.

AMD also has Xbox and Nintendo design wins.

APUs are the future of computing. Invented by AMD. You better believe it.

22 7 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/02/12 01:34:40 AM]
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4 14 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 02:53:28 AM]
For consoles it's not a step back, for PC gamers it is, but compared to the 360 and PS3 the new consoles will be more powerful even with AMD hardware.
Other than that I agree with you however that they're taking a "cheap" approach. Though you can't really blame them if you look how successful the Wii was with cheap hardware.
11 3 [Posted by: whythisname  | Date: 11/02/12 03:40:32 AM]
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4 10 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 03:49:18 AM]
He didn't misunderstand your post. You clearly stated, "This will take us back a few years in gaming." If you are speaking English, then what you stated is in error, completely.

If consoles did not exist, gaming as we know it would be a highly niche, obscure market. Like it or not, consoles do all the mass marketing and selling of games to the peasant masses such as yourself. Console hardware may be indirectly damaging PC games because developers from EA an the like do not see the point in properly coding their PC versions or making PC games, but they are still required.
6 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 04:50:44 AM]

For graphics yes, but saying consoles have always held back gaming advance is a little off.

It was consoles that started the revolution age of gaming that will know today.

Titles like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Tekken, Street Fighter, Gran Turismo, Halo, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid and other countless classics were all originate from consoles.

And it's what bought so many gamers together. I respect your opinion if you don't like console, but making statements like that is just ignorant.
6 3 [Posted by: xenocea  | Date: 11/02/12 04:55:38 AM]
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3 7 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 05:00:04 AM]
All of the statements of his are ignorant. He is still an immature child, give him another 20 years to mature into a responsible adult. However, he may be so far gone that this is no longer possible.

Now that you have angered him, prepare to be downvoted by his legion.
7 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 05:01:46 AM]
Yeah I realize how ignorant he is. Not going to bother with people like him anymore.
6 5 [Posted by: xenocea  | Date: 11/02/12 05:08:01 AM]
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4 8 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/02/12 06:13:15 AM]
I suggest you take a history listen in gaming, before you speak kid.
3 4 [Posted by: xenocea  | Date: 11/02/12 11:06:21 PM]
Great post xenocea! Some of the best franchieses are on consoles. Growing up, I loved gaming on NES, SNES/Genesis, N64/PS1/PS2. Consoles got many of us into the hobby of videogames and later as we grew up and could easily afford high-end gaming PCs, then we complimented our consoles with high-end PCs and picked and chose the best titles for each platform. Exclusive PC gamers will never get it. It's their loss for missing out on decades of amazing games.

Sounds like 123 and Avon are young kids as they never experienced the type of revolution that consoles have brought into our lives in the 80s and 90s.
16 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:11:28 PM]

You are confusing graphics with gameplay. Some of the best games ever made are on consoles (and on the PC as well). Claiming that the world would be better off without consoles is the most ridiculous thing I've read on any gaming / PC forum. You realize in many parts of the world a console is all gamers can afford? Not everyone can build a PC from scratch given their lack of knowledge or funds. Consoles allow a "turn-key" gaming device that's accessible to people of all ages. While I have chosen PC as my main gaming platform, it's simply ignorant to state that consoles are worse for everyone (and that we would be better off without them).

I'd honestly rather play games like Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, Uncharted or Forza Motorsports 4 than MOH Warfighter with its scripted 5 hour campaign.

Without consoles, it would be impossible to sustain PC game development in today's state of PC gaming. Only the major houses making MMOs and strategy games like Blizzard would survive. All those BF3 and Crysis 2 games sold on consoles will bring more $ to those developers, which in turn allows us to have BF4 and Crysis 3.

Not to mention some console games are brilliant like Legend of Zelda games, God of War, Uncharted, Batman games, etc.

Real gamers enjoy a wide variety of gaming devices, not just PCs. If all you like are the same military brain-dead FPSers, then sure PC may be good enough for you.

The amount of innovation in games that came out on consoles is significant. The best sports games, fighting games, 3rd person action adventure games and platform games are all on consoles.

This year actually Dark Souls + Durante's mod is in the TOP 3 best games on the PC and it's a console port. Assassin's Creed 3? Borderlands 2? Dishonored? All console ports and good games.
16 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 05:54:20 PM]
Don't forget RTS gamers, which almost all are PC only. Total War franchise is one of the biggest PC franchises in existence, and one of the most successful, very likely has more SLOC than any other game in existence. It is extremely profitable and is one of the only franchises to make full use of PC hardware today.

After the major success of Empire, Napoleon the year after, the gigantic Shogun 2, Rise of the Samurai, and the standalone Fall of the Samurai offering the best experience to date, they are on to improve the Total War saga with a remake of Rome utilizing all the latest technologies since then. They have been consistently producing one gigantic game every year, with some of the biggest art assets.
5 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:55:20 PM]
I never forgot those. What you mean is SEGA made those strategy games? And SEGA wouldn't have existed without SEGA consoles?

My point is AvON as usual takes a very one-sided view, which is too universal in claim and is frankly absurd. The world would not be better off if consoles were never invented.
14 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 09:40:52 PM]
SEGA didn't make them, Creative Assembly made them. Creative Assembly originally belonged to EA but they sold CA to SEGA.
0 0 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 01/15/13 07:37:18 PM]

"This will take us back a few years in gaming, its just that console makers decided to go with the "cheap" AMD"

You are ignorant to Sony's financial standing. Sony has lost more $ this year than at any time in its 50 year history, 7th straight earnings loss in a row:

Stop living in your mom's basement and get an education in business, strategy and finance so your opinion has some weight regarding viable component choices in a console that's meant to make profits for the company's shareholders. You already have shown you lack objectivity in your technical discussions on these forums and you are now showing lack of understanding regarding the financial position of Sony at the current point in time.

What did you expect PS4 to have a 6-core 3960X, 32GB DDR3, 512GB SATA3 Samsung 840 SSD and GTX690 SLI?

Did you also forget the state of the global economy right now? Sony made a fundamental mistake of being one year late with a very high launch price. If you had read the news, you would have known that there is a recession in some parts of Europe and most of the world's economy would not be so thrilled about a $599 PS4. The high price of PS3 hurt the console and its subsequent adoption rate with gamers was much slower, as they instead chose cheaper consoles in the form of Wii and Xbox 360.

At this point, the choice to go with an AMD CPU is a logical one. It's faster than the PowerPC alternatives and yet it's more cost effective than the Core i3's pricing structure. Core i5/i7 wouldn't work since Intel is unlikely to compromise on its 60%+ gross margins and give Sony a reasonable price per unit.

The only remaining piece of the puzzle is whether a separate discrete GPU will complement that APU design.
16 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 05:48:36 PM]
PS4 will employ the most advanced technologies possible, AMD design wins

Most advanced technologies my ass. APUs are slower compared with traditional GPU+CPU. We already sow "power" of the Wii U *watch CoD: Black Ops 2 trailer*.
6 4 [Posted by: cvnvn  | Date: 11/02/12 03:37:38 AM]
What's up with the copy pasta post?
8 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 04:39:01 AM]
Haha, being downvoted for reporting a copy pasta post, hilarious.
7 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 05:03:22 AM]

The graphics chip in the APU can serve as a physics and image postprocessing processor.
AMD with PS4 will probably use for the first time an APU in a full unified memory environment.

In desktop computers that power will come from either a multicore CPU, 2nd discrete card or more powerful main discrete card. If you have an APU from AMD maybe developers do some cool adaptations to the non full unified memory space, something AMD plans to bring for 2014-2015.
4 3 [Posted by: Filiprino  | Date: 11/02/12 03:58:59 AM]
- collapse thread

This is a perfect idea. I doubt we will see much physics here however, but I could see the GPU being used to accelerate various functions within the game programming. AI is likely choice. I imagine the Orbis will have an A10 with extra graphics resources. In the end, a program well coded in OpenCL, an APU will outperform any high end Intel processor.

However, watch out Filiprino, if they find out you are making coherently logical comments you will get spammed by downvotes by 123, avon, and all their alt accounts.
6 7 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 04:40:07 AM]
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0 8 [Posted by: PnoyP  | Date: 11/04/12 09:34:45 PM]
You don't even know what logic means. Its too late for AMD to Bring anything of real value to the table. AMD Steamroller iS CANCELLED in 2013 all we are going to get from AMD is S**TDriver and GCN I don't think it'll be that much better especially power consumption and IPC/clockspeed.
2 3 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 11:05:33 PM]
What's wrong with GCN? Trinity is 2x faster than HD4000 and GCN will pummel GT3 Haswell integrated graphics into the ground next year.

A10-based design with GCN GPU for PS4 is a good starting point, hopefully along with a dedicated GPU for hybrid XF.
15 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 09:46:35 PM]

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1 8 [Posted by: ps4site  | Date: 11/02/12 04:24:19 AM]
- collapse thread

How about we not visit your website?
6 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 04:52:44 AM]
Downvote me more Avon, make my rating reach the guinness world records.

Edit: What's wrong Avon? You only have two accounts?
6 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 05:04:58 AM]
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3 7 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/02/12 06:07:21 AM]
That's because you deserve to be downvoted, all of your posts are contradictory, instigating, insulting, childish nonsense.
5 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 10:03:07 AM]
How 'bout I visit your site millions of times in the span of a second?
16 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/03/12 03:44:27 AM]

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4 8 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 05:12:08 AM]
- collapse thread

This won't help Avon to escape his psychological DEATH spiral. With every post Avon makes, his stress levels increase.
7 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 05:13:35 AM]
Its not even out yet, hold your horses mmstick. We will see if Sony made the right choices. Silly Fan-Boys like you always rush and create hype, just like Bulldozer. Right mmstick? LoL
Now its Steamroller will be 50% faster just like Bulldozer was suposed to be 50% faster than Phenom II. LoL
5 6 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 05:20:29 AM]
If AvONbaCK had his way, the world would be forced to go back to playing Pong and Space Invaders on a meagre Intel HD 4000 console. He is the Taliban of tech.
18 5 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/02/12 05:50:05 AM]
You're you so d**b linuxlowdown. So much Fail in that comment. Intel's HD 4000 can do a lot more than play ping pong and Space Invaders.
5 6 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/02/12 06:09:35 AM]
You're right. It can also handle more sophisticated titles such as Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Frogga, Doctor Doo and Galaga to name but a few.
19 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/02/12 07:08:01 AM]
You are dumb, Intel's HD 4000 doesnt even support all the DX and OpenGL calls, let alone OpenCL. It's as bad as all the rest of their hellish integrated cards. Intel has the worst support for drivers, and it's always pretty much been blacklisted by the gaming community. Intel tried to design a graphics card a few times in the past, wasted several billion dollars and failed. Now they are trying to do Many cores because they failed to figure out how to make a good GPU coprocessor. Not many people are even that impressed with many cores, since AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards are already well supported by known software standards, and give a significantly better FLOP throughput than any Intel processor.
6 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 10:13:08 AM]
Intel HD 4000 does support OpenCL 1.1

As for gaming, it is not bad as you try to make it. I have laptop with switchable graphics (intel HD4000 & radeon dedicated graphics). I can tell you HD4000 does run a lot of modern games at 1366x768 with medium details
2 4 [Posted by: maroon1  | Date: 11/03/12 10:50:35 AM]
HD4000 would be a waste of $ since HD4000 is NOT an upgarde from the GPU in PS3/360 (those are ~ 7900GT and between X1800XT and X1950XT respectively):

A10-5800K = 31
X1800XT = 16.7
7900GT = 16.1
Intel HD4000 = 16.7 (FAIL)

AMD's GPU inside A10 is nearly 2x faster than HD4000 for the same price. The added performance advantage of Core i3 in games is also not useful for consoles since no one is trying to go above 60 fps avg. where CPU starts to matter more. In that case, more cores is actually better than i3.

Also, Intel's gaming drivers are terrible compared to AMD's/NV's. It doesn't matter if HD4000 supports OpenCL, as the GPU architecture is hopeless slow games.

Finally, Intel probably won't give as good of a deal on the CPU to begin with, making it the worst decision to with them in a modern console.
17 10 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 11:24:50 AM]
You definitely don't have a clue what you are talking about. Intel is doing very well considering that is not an natural GPU manufacturer. AMD would not even reach HD 4000 performance if they did not purchase ATI. Not even in a million years because they suck.
5 7 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 06:12:33 AM]
And I suppose AMD would not be in a financial "death spiral", as you call it, if they hadn't bought ATI and tried to develop their own graphics at the snail's pace of Intel. You can't have it both ways troll.
19 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/02/12 07:29:01 AM]
3 4 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/02/12 05:39:40 PM]
Since when have you ever needed proof to form an opinion? When facts and reasonable hypotheticals are presented to the contrary of your biases, you conveniantly look the other way. By definition that's a fanboy. And the subset of fanboy who trolls is like the earthworm - important for the company's roots in the community because he eats its marketing dirt and defecates it richer.
17 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/03/12 03:25:57 AM]
You keep forgetting that if it was not for the ATI engineers they would not of had an APU because their CPU department sucks badly. Most of the APU maybe 90% or even more was designed from the graphics team.
4 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 10:16:54 PM]
There you go again, spreading opinions and stating lies as if they are fact.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:04:26 PM]
Last time I checked, no one buys an Intel processor for the lame integrated chip in the processor. People who have the integrated graphics do not have it by choice. Therefore, they are not doing well in that department.
5 2 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 08:24:47 PM]
The shares says other things than what you say.
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 10:20:32 PM]
The last time I checked, shares had nothing to do with people buying Intel processors for their integrated chips. Everyone looking for integrated graphics in the processor is buying AMD APUs, not Intel CPUs.
5 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:17:48 PM]
mmstick, you expect to have a logical discussion with 2 high-school kids? Let me use their sophisticated language to summarize how well it'll go for you try to use logic and facts against fanboys: "LOL"
15 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:25:03 PM]
Silly fanboys like you, Avon, always rush to instigate fights at the slightest drop of news. See your comments above, first you say Sony is going to regret it and AMD is in a death spiral, now you are telling me that I rush to create hype? ROFL The irony in your words is so hilarious. I'm sorry? Bulldozer is 50% faster than Phenom II X6, it is 100% faster than Phenom II X4. I have an old Phenom II X4 machine, and a Phenom II X6 machine, my FX-8120s consistently complete 50% more work units than my Phenom II X6 machine.
6 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 10:08:36 AM]
Maybe in your dreams that would be possible mmstick.
The numbers you are giving out if they were true AMD would compete with Intel but unfortunately that is not the case. LoL
5 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 10:24:44 PM]
They are true, and no matter what you say, you can't change that reality. How unfortunate for you.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:00:22 PM]
Bulldozer is really faster than Phenom ... But it cannot change the fact AMD delayed their totally innovative x86-64 computing architecture for waaaay too long to expect that weasly and slow Megacorp would include AMDs view of multicore approach to its generic OS.

AMD after all keeps only 15% of total notebook and desktop market and bulldozer architecture in 2012 make maybe insignificant 0.5% of totall PCs today in use. So for Megacorp there's no need to rush or worry about Bulldozers supposed underperformance
3 5 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 07:36:04 PM]
xbox is using amd as well. And it is rumored that the next one will have an amd gpu as well.

9 1 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 11/02/12 10:08:59 AM]
Rumors are not FACTS unfortunatly.
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 09:49:30 PM]
That doesn't stop you from spreading your rumours as if they are facts. However, it is very much fact that the new Xbox will be using an AMD GPU.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:20:58 PM]
You got that right charlie But definitely not an apu. LoL And it wont help AMD to avoid its DEATH spiral.
That is if they make it that far to provide the XBOX with a GPU.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 01:27:02 PM]
I'm afraid AMD will not have a death spiral as you claim so much. No matter how many times you repeat this, it isn't going to make your argument solid. However, the death spiral of your psychological state has been an entertaining experience.
4 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:47:36 PM]

If Xbox is not using AMD's x86 CPU/APU, then it's using an even slower PowerPC processor. I guess you'd rather have a console with IBM's Power 7+ CPU architecture over AMD's Piledriver cores? Please, tell us something informative for once.

You already said you hate consoles. Even if PS4 had a 6-core IVB and GTX690, it's not like you would buy it, right?
15 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:27:22 PM]
NO Intel would be in the next xbox whether you like it or not. And they might ditch the graphics as well and go for Nvidia.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 06:56:13 AM]

If true it would likely mean much more expensive Xbox next, or if the price is similar to PS4, much worse GPU as no way will NV deliver similar price/performance to AMD.

After, NV burned them with Xbox 1, it's doubtful MS would work with them for a long time. Not to mention, AMD has better performance/watt and performance/$ offerings with HD6000 GPUs and faster performance and better performance/$ with GCN GPUs. For that reason, why would anyone go with NV for next generation consoles?

NV's GTX500/600 series = slower for the same price or much more expensive for the same performance? That's not a winning strategy for any console maker in 2012-2013.

It's possible NV would cut them a better deal, but highly unlikely given that NV maintains healthy margins > 50% and JHH isn't desperate to be in consoles when he is selling millions worth of Tesla K20 GPUs for supercomputers instead. Winning console design wins is not as important for NV in the first place.
15 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:08:11 PM]
So you silly boy must be joking ... even Xbox will incorporate AMD based APUs in their design

After all Megacrap Corp is more price conscious when it comes to spending their own money than Sony
6 2 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 07:29:42 PM]
I would wait to see the final specs of the consoles rather than making big statements as you do.
Sorry but i just dont buy this kind of stuff as easily as you do. You are simply reacting to any nonsense that is out there on the internet. I am sure many things are kept in secret by console makers and the specs would not be known this soon and that everybody will know what they have in their consoles. So that is a NO from me. The really funny thing would be if finally nobody will use an APU in their consoles. LOL
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 09:54:46 PM]
You buy ALL kinds of stuff easily. In your history here, you've posted plenty of links from rumour mills and stated them as facts. I remember you posted a faked excel-based chart from a guy who was known to fake charts, detailing the performance of the FX-8350. You stated that the FX-8350 had 0% performance improvement and that all improvements came from higher clock frequency. Then the actual FX-8350 comes out and blows his charts out of the water with its 10-20% performance increase on top of the higher clocks. You even believed his previous bulldozer chart. Earlier, you even posted a chart made by Donanimhaber. It appears the one reacting to nonsense on the Internet is you, Avon.
5 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:45:25 PM]
S**TDRIVER has NO IPC Improvements IT's all clockspeed that's the truth.
3 4 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/03/12 02:17:46 PM]
Your comments have no improvements, it's all trash talk and that's the truth. You lose, 123. is all I need to say to send your fantasies into flames.
5 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:26:00 PM]
LOL Keep posting your silly graphs mmstick LOL
Did you notice that for some odd reason they never attempt clock the 8150 at the same speed as the 8350???? LOL hilarious. Its because if they put it at the same speed it will look like a pile of sh*t. And some of those benches have the 8150 at stock 3.6Ghz Pretty biased benches indeed. LOL did you upload these mmstick in order to deceive people? LOL
And we dont care about Linux benchmarks mmstick.

That is exactly why i stopped being an AMD fan, for individuals just like mmstick.

Me "Shakes Head"
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 04:33:18 PM]
Vishera has a 7% IPC increase from Bulldozer.

Computerbase put both FX8150 and FX8350 to 4.0ghz to confirm this:

Keep ignoring facts though.

Rumor has it you will hate next-generation consoles even more when you find out all 3 have AMD GPUs in them. Last time MS went with NV + Intel design in Xbox 1 and it didn't do much for them. Hardware alone doesn't sell consoles, software does and consoles that are priced at reasonable levels entice consumer purchases.

Wii U is already sold out everywhere in US and Canada despite packing very low-end hardware.
16 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:36:25 PM]
If its computerbase i will accept it because is one of my favorite websites and i trust them.
Not some silly Linux benchmarks from mmstick. I fricken use WINDOWS and not linux with its prehistoric UI.
I will have a look at it thanks.
4 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 06:59:30 PM]
Openbenchmarking with the Phoronix Benchmark Suite is the most comprehensive benchmarking platform in existence, coupled with the most optimized for all architectures in existence because it is open source. Not some silly Windows benchmarks.

News flash moron, Linux has existed as long as Windows has, Linux is updated daily, unlike that prehistoric Windows you use. Linux is NOT a UI, it is a KERNEL (15+ million lines of code, over 7x that of Microsoft's kernel). There are many types of UI's, aka DEs. Unity, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, Gnome, for example.

How does a benchmark running on a decrepit Windows OS suddenly become better than the modern Linux benchmarks?

There are far more bugs in Windows kernel than Linux, there are far more lines of code in Linux kernel, there is far more companies working on Linux than Microsoft, there is far more experienced and numerous amount of programming engineers who have coded for Linux added many thousands of years of programming time creating it. In fact, it even deploys dozens of technologies that you won't see in Windows for many years, or decades even.

The current development in the Linux community right now is to make it the best gaming platform in existence. It won't take them long to completely massacre Windows gaming capabilities, they could easily achieve it within months. Valve already has their Linux games running faster than they do in Windows, much faster. It only took them a few months to port L4D over, and after some basic optimization it was getting much higher framerates.

In the end, however, whether you use Linux or Windows makes NO difference. Hardware is hardware, running it in a different OS should NOT magically make it faster unless there is a problem with the software, aka Windows. Windows is a giant collection of bugs and deprecated software.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:15:18 PM]
"Hardware is hardware, running it in a different OS should NOT magically make it faster"

You are contradicting again mmstick., you said AMD cpu's run better on linux. ROLF
3 1 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 06:59:47 AM]
It isn't contradicting, your literacy skills are simply absolute zero.

"Hardware is hardware, running it in a different OS should NOT magically make it faster unless there is a problem with the software, aka Windows."

Now it sounds like you are just trying to pick a few words out of a sentence to take it out of context in order to make a reply because otherwise you have nothing to say.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:02:56 PM]
Wii U actually looks good on its small screen but i like it for some reason it has quite good graphics.
4 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 07:14:31 PM]
That's because all the money you should have spent on a graphics card went into that lame processor of yours, which does absolutely nadda to improve games.
5 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:06:18 PM]
Did you even bother to read it? Let me point it out to you moron.

AMD FX 8350 4GHZ
AMD FX 8350 4.6GHz
AMD FX 8150 3.6Ghz
AMD FX 8150 4GHz
AMD FX 8150 4.6GHz

They did put the 8150 at the same speed as the 8350, and they pushed it even farther to 4.6Ghz. There is a nice 10-20% performance increase here. The only thing we don't know is what voltages did this person use, as it appears he overvolted the FX8350, which has lower power consumption than the FX8150 at the same frequencies, yet his benchmark shows the opposite.

You don't like Linux benchmarks? Please tell me, what other OS gives better, unbiased benchmarks? Wintel? No, Windows is optimized for Intel architecture, and Windows benchmarks are compiled with Intel C+. What's next? Nothing. Linux is decades ahead of Windows in task scheduling and is optimized for Intel, AMD, ARM, VIA, and whatever else you own. If you don't like reality, that's your problem.

This is exactly why you are a dumb 12 year old. You want to talk with the big boys but when you hear something you don't like you feel the need to scoff at it and turn the other way. Then, when you hear something slightly bad, whether it be from an official source, or some random rumour, you are eager to piss all over people, douse everyone with gasoline, light the fire, and then go another step further and add oil to the proverbial fire. However, right now it is you who is at the receiving end of this fire, but no matter how hard you look for an escape, you are unable to find it.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:04:53 PM]
While FX8350 is behind Intel in games, in applications it slots roughly between i5-3470 and i7-2600k.

Some websites have actually put it between i7-2600K and i7-3770K:

That's impressive for Windows OS as the CPU is just $199. For non-gamers and non-overclockers (most people outside this enthusiast forum), FX-8350 may be a better choice than i5-3570K is.
14 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:17:13 PM]
Make it a 50% for the s**tdriver because AMD fan-boys have the tendency to exaggerate things. LoL
Actually its closer to 0% in IPC improvment its 2 to 5% MAX and all that is due to its higher clock speed. LoL Keep dreaming mmstick.
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 04:24:05 PM]
It's been what 3-4 threads now that I tried to talk some sense into you but it seems like it's talking to a wall. Your knowledge of hardware is either severely lacking or you are just trolling as everyone else in this thread says about you (except your BFF 123).

Gaming benchmarks with GTX680 @ 1920x1200:

A10-5800K = 100%
FX-8150 = 103%
FX-4170 = 105%
i3 3220 = 114%
FX-8350 = 117%

Going with an Intel i3 would only provide 14% more performance on average with a top-of-the line $420+ NV GPU. Of course we know the consoles won't have HD7970/GTX680 GPU, implying that they'll be mostly GPU not CPU limited. By not going with an AMD APU, they would be losing a 'free' 2.5-3x faster GPU than HD2500. This can be used for Kinect 2.0 or PS Move, etc.

Going with FX-8xxx CPUs barely improves gaming performance as 99% of games don't scale well beyond 4-cores/threads. Yet an FX-8xxx has 70-80W higher power consumption and also much higher cost to Sony and MS. To make a more balanced console, a budget quad-core CPU with a mid-range discrete GPU would be more effective.

The most optimal solution is either PowerPC + discrete GPU or APU + discrete GPU. Intel i5/i7 would be ideal but both of those are too expensive and won't be possible in the console. Among Power PC, AMD's quad-core APUs and Core i3, Intel's CPU is the worst possible option for a console because it only has 2 cores and a weak GPU that can't be cross-fired.

Say what you want, there are only 2 viable options on the table for PS4/Xbox next - IBM PowerPC or AMD's CPU / APU. For cost reasons, Intel is not an option. You can troll all you want but most of us would rather have an AMD quad-core CPU than an PowerPC-derivative that's even worse!

You sound like a Republican voter, when presented with hard evidence and facts, you continue to spout your opinion with no credible alternatives, no better solution and no counter-arguments with actual facts why AMD's CPU solution is a terrible choice. You just keep repeating how amazing Intel is, completely ignoring the cost associated with an i5/i7 solution.

If you want to say using an AMD APU without a discrete GPU would be a huge mistake, that would be a good argument. Instead, nothing concrete or objective ever comes out of your posts.
17 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 05:36:24 PM]
realistically it has 40-50 watt higher power consumption. Anything that demonstrates otherwise is because the person is testing the power consumption from the outlet with a bad power supply.

FX-8s may not improve gaming performance, but they don't perform badly at gaming either. If anything, they were designed for running highly threaded software, which there is plenty of it in existence. Everyone looking to 'just game' could go with processors for people with those low needs, like FX-6300s and 4300s. Most people buying high end processors like the FX 8s are people like me who do a lot of cluster encoding, 3D rendering, distributed computing projects and want the ability to play games at the same time. FX 8 is a healthy middle point between server hardware and desktop hardware.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 12:11:32 AM]
LoL Bad power supply. LOL everything else is bad except the AMD processor. You are such idiot mmstick. Please tell us how many modern power supplies go bad or they are bad as you say it especially from good makers?
Get real mmstick you always have a stupid answer for everything. Well you can finally forget about it now since AMD cancelled all steamroller based stuff and is officially out of the high-end desktop market. Thank God we dont have to listen to your nonsense anymore.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 03:02:40 AM]
Wow, I can really tell you haven no experience in the computer building or IT field. Even from good makers like Antec, power supplies have a decent chance of 'going bad', but that is not what I mean. Bad power supply as in a piece of junk power supply.

Please detail how my answers are 'stupid'. In fact, please tell me how your own comments are not stupid. All of your comments, even this one, have no base of logic to stand upon. You only demonstrate your inferiority in the technical field whenever you make half-assed comments like this. AMD never canceled Steamroller, and you have no solid proof for this. You need to keep your BS to yourself. Thank God xbitlabs has me here to deal with your petty comments, peasant boy.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:16:55 AM]
I never had a power supply go bad on me and i have been building computers for 15 years now, for me and my clients. If you had such things it means you bought some crappy power supplies or you loaded them to much because you dont know what power supply you need for you hardware, or the hardware you have connected to the power supply was cheap and crappy.
3 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 04:09:35 AM]
If Avon has been making up computers for 15 years he must have been in nappies when he started. He must have been a child prodigy. Now look what's happened to him. His parents must be so disappointed. I perish the thought as to what may have become of his sister.

Only 15 years? You should have more respect for your elders, you cocky young holigan.
14 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/04/12 04:56:59 AM]
HAH! Clients? You mean your little brother, aka troll head #2? Hilarious. You don't know much about power supplies then, I've had many fail, some within days, some that were DOA, and others that fizzed out within months. I bet '15' years is actually your real age. I assure you, if you actually work in the field you would have had to replace plenty of power supplies and hard drives. Capacitors are nowhere near as tough as you think they are. Surges, brownouts, heat, dust, who knows what else can cause failure of the power supply, capacitors failure being the most common cause.

Having an expensive power supply doesn't guarantee that it will not die. There is a reason why power supplies have warranties, because they can, and will fail.
4 5 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 05:13:30 AM]
They failed because you are a failure and you don't know how to handle hardware and obviously know nothing about them. You are just like a kid that has built his first computer and thinks he knows everything.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 05:51:31 AM]
In my experience heat abuse is the big one. Often people put their towers too close to a wall in a poorly ventilated case and stack papers on top too that invariably hang over the back, suffocating airflow.

Avon's clients include his little brother, his second troll head, his grandmother (who can't see that it's not an AMD inside otherwise he'd cop a walking stick in the nether region), his frumpy neighbour (who also takes his valuable time up with cut and paste lessons), the guy he met at the bus stop (who pressured him into buying multi-level marketing products in exchange) and his sister's "boyfriend" (who thinks Avon gets that he won't be paying him anything for it).
15 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/04/12 07:14:50 AM]
Second Troll Head man are you an idiot those don't exist fool. Who do you think it is?
3 4 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 04:08:29 PM]
It's more than mythical.
15 4 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/04/12 11:56:47 PM]
You can't say something doesn't exist because of Devil's Proof. You can't prove that they don't exist, therefore you cannot say they don't exist.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/05/12 01:15:25 AM]

"FX-8s may not improve gaming performance"

Vishera improved gaming performance a fair bit over Bulldozer. Both at 4.0ghz, Vishera shows an 8-21% gain in games:
14 7 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:21:24 PM]
You didn't read my comment thoroughly enough.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/06/12 12:12:43 AM]

show the post
2 6 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 07:07:35 AM]
- collapse thread

Good enough for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. Who else in consoles should they please to meet your bar?

Btw, Jim Keller = 1000 Intel contracted engineers in Bangalore, plus a bit of spice.
18 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/02/12 07:12:25 AM]
show the post
3 6 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 08:24:31 AM]
show the post
3 6 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/02/12 09:11:46 AM]
They are not the 800 pound gorilla of the computing industry. IBM is the leader of the entire technological and computer industry. Not even Intel could compete with IBM. If IBM decided to make processors for desktops instead of servers, Intel would be eliminated.
6 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 10:18:25 AM]
Riiight. If that then else

IBM has a lot of illed patents and technology that from which they milk money. It's not like all this technocrap could ever see real world function but its good when its needed to someone who's willing to pay so that they could use it like AMD needed alliance with them (ofc they had to pay for it) and now even Intel must pay for their patents when it comes to silicon innnovation, which would com as evolutionary step. But IBM research same tech when it was not needed at 130nm node 10 years ago ... some of us call that technocratic blackmail.
But that's something Intel uses also so they're not really deprived for anything. Unlike rest of us.

ergo, Intel couldn't be eliminated even if your nightmare would spill out into real world (just like IBM you noted above)
4 1 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 07:43:07 PM]

For console, it is important to achieve high enough performance and reliability at the lowest cost.

Performance: 1080p in 3D. A custom Trinity APU with higher clock and new design of the graphic portion may be enough to achieve that. It also depends on the complexity of the game, and efficiency of the game engine. I don't think PS4 can support 4K resolution in games within budget.

Reliability: an APU (1 chip) will very likely be more reliable than a CPU+GPU (2 chips) solution. More reliable console means happier customers and lower support cost.

Cost: initially, even Wii U cost will be higher than the retail price. It is very important to keep the cost down. A custom fast APU will still be a lot cheaper than CPU+GPU in cost of material, design and maintenance. Low cost - happy customer and happy manufacturer.

There are probably more advantages in APU not being shown in normal PC gaming benchmarks. PC games are not designed specifically for APU. But games for PS4 will be optimized for the console/APU. Those unified stuffs and quick communication between CPU and GPU within the chip can be utilized. Programmers will be using OpenCL whenever they can to get the highest performance from the APU. So we will very likely see performance higher than what we have seen from current benchmarks.
9 4 [Posted by: gjcjan  | Date: 11/02/12 09:40:19 AM]
- collapse thread

amen, you said the absolute truth that the fanboys above just can't realize.
5 4 [Posted by: nitro912gr  | Date: 11/02/12 10:05:04 AM]
You guys are just pulling stuff out of your asses. So you are telling us because games will be specifically designed for the APU will be better and i agree to a certain point but i think we all remember what happened to PS3, nearly all the games if not all were designed for the XBOX, and you remember why? Yes you got it right because it was much more simple to do games on the xbox. Sony had to make its own games to barely keep itself alive. I hope for Sonys sake they dont have to go through that again.

Edit: Let the downvoting begin from the AMD Fan-Boys because i am correct. Haha hilarious.
4 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 07:09:52 PM]
So now even Sony will use APU which is DirectX compatible. So what's wrong with that. Except that difference of specific consoles are now blend into easier to market games deployment.
5 3 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 07:54:46 PM]
History never lies my friend.
What you did not understand here and you were unable to grasp what i said, is that i was hoping for Sony that history does not repeat itself.
You are taking rumors on the net to seriously. Read my other reply towards you for this matter.
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 09:19:55 PM]
Says the guy who religiously spreads rumours like no tomorrow. rofl
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:02:57 PM]
"So you are telling us because games will be specifically designed for the APU will be better"

Yes, that's how consoles have always worked - higher level of optimization due to a fixed hardware base.

Did you see Medal of Honor Warfighter, Crysis 1, Witcher 2, Metro 2033 on Xbox360 running on a 7-year-old GPU?

You obviously haven't got a clue that games are coded to the metal on consoles and resources are not wasted on OS/API as they are on a typical Windows OS + DX.

PS3's problem was the Cell was not easy to code for, they were 1 year late, the price was too high. Otherwise, PS3 was a superior console to 360 in terms of exclusive titles and as a multi-media device. If Sony undercuts MS on price or has a faster dedicated GPU, they'll have a very competitive console next round. With MS likely wasting money on gimmick Kinect 2.0, Sony has the edge for spending more $ on the GPU, or undercutting MS's console.
14 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:48:52 PM]
Lets see battlefield 3 or even more demanding game, future games run at 60fps stable at 1080p high settins and non upscaled from 720p claims from the AMD fan-boy. Try to beat that. This is wishful thinking.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 05:03:56 AM]
That's easily achievable. Have you seen how well it performs on those lowly consoles at 720p? If a piece of garbage in a PS3 can render that, the hardware listed above can easily achieve 1080p @ 60 FPS. Even if triangles and textures have to be moved around, it will be done to achieve it.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/05/12 01:17:19 AM]
Downgraded stuff sure they perform well.
Stop talking you are making a complete ass out of yourself. Current consoles hit low 15fps in some games. So don't say anymore BS.
3 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/05/12 04:20:59 AM]
60 fps stable? You mean "Minimum 60 fps"?

Consoles never aspire to achieve that level of performance. Most PS3/360 games run at 30 fps and drop to 20-30 fps at times. 30 fps @ 1080P will be good enough for the target market. Their 1080P @ 60 fps claims sound like marketing to me.

The point is, there are console-related optimizations due to fixed hardware base and the fact that developers core directly to the metal.

Console gamers never cared about 60 fps minimums and never will.
14 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:19:44 PM]
The article is fuss to be honest.

Neither of consoles would use APUs that are currently marketed because they're not best thing AMD can offer for last 18month. And their API is dx11 which is obsoleted in favor of dx11.1 in which AMD put a lot of effort just to secure deal with Megacorp for xbox720 supplier.

It would use Kaveri derivative APU (Steamroller core) which will be based on at least current GCN Gen.1 architecture used in Southern Islands. But it would probably be GCN Gen2 from Sea Islands with improved power optimizations.
6 2 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 07:52:19 PM]
True but the deals have already been done whatever they are they cannot just switch hardware now. Its not possible, its like starting from scratch.
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/02/12 07:56:35 PM]
Wrong, they can switch hardware at any time within the next year.
6 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/02/12 08:13:51 PM]
They made a deal on technology.
Technology that existed last year (Southern Islands) and now already existing new gen (Sea Islands) are what we could in old day say "pin-compatible" ... it's same tech (GCN) just slightly optimized.

When tech existed they easily can do programming on PC-like setup ... Easy to deploy software.

And after all what i forget in numerous replies here and there. Probably we'll saw that APU with GDDR5 on SoC connected thru 64b on die controller to compensate for poor bandwith. And as this is "Gaming Oriented design" we could even see whole design resides on single channel (64b) ddr3 and even wider gddr3 bus (128b) to achieve performance. And while Kaveri probably won't have on die 64b GDDR5 controller and will sport only 384-512 GCN SIMD units. APUs for consoles, at least Xbox and PS4 will probably go for at least double number of SIMDs 960-1280 to comfortably accommodate gaming on 1080p 60fps.
5 2 [Posted by: OmegaHuman  | Date: 11/02/12 08:40:22 PM]
"comfortably accommodate gaming on 1080p 60fps"
Please tell me you are joking because that sounded really stupid. What 60fps stable on 1080p settings and non upscaled from 720p?
That is very optimistic, i am really sorry to brake the bad news for you but that ain't going to happen. Keep dreaming. LoL
Its amazing how AMD fan-boys would just write any nonsense that just popped out of their silly heads to hype things. Are you getting payed to write this BS? LoL

Edit: You idiot keep downvoting me because you have no answer to what i said. LOL
3 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 04:22:43 AM]
You can't comprehend it so you think it is stupid. Instead of detailing why, you ramble about fanboys.

Omega's argument is very solid, and 1080p @ 60FPS is not a very high bar.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:38:13 PM]
Mark my words. AMD wont be able to deliver for the consoles. Therefor the deals will be cancelled.
Forget about the 60fps thingy you are babbling about.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 02:28:28 PM]
Prepare to eat your words then.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:38:50 PM]
Deals cancelled? So there won't be next generation consoles then? Good one. After the NV2A Xbox1 NV fiasco, NV isn't getting into next gen consoles for a decade, much to your chagrin.

Interestingly enough, Xbox 360's GPU is more powerful than the RSX in PS3 despite having launched 1 year earlier. Goes to show that NV can't even provide a competitive price/performance part for consoles. NV's high prices is the worst thing for consoles that are built around strict budgets.
13 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 06:54:03 PM]
While what you are saying would be a lot more optimal, the VG 24/7 points out that:

"The revised kits due in January are said to be near final spec, offering developers ample time to get their launch games in shape."

Neither Kaveri, nor Steamroller cores will be ready by January 2013. Thus, this option is not possible.
15 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 07:21:22 PM]
Those unified stuffs and quick communication between CPU and GPU within the chip can be utilized.

What are those unified stuffs ?

AMD APU so far doesn't have any unified stuff between CPU and GPU (this might change with future APU)

On the other hand intel has shared L3 cache between CPU and GPU.
3 3 [Posted by: maroon1  | Date: 11/03/12 11:00:02 AM]
1. Intel's GPUs are at least 1 generation behind AMD's current APUs in performance. Having L3 cache is meaningless when HD4000 core is slower than the graphics in PS3/360. HD4000 is a non-starter for a console since it's not even an improvement over current 6-7 year old consoles.

2. AMD's APUs have unified northbridge and memory controllers, discussed on this very website:
"Now the graphics core can communicate with the memory controller along the 256-bit Radeon memory Bus"
"The unified North Bridge has also undergone significant modifications. First of all, engineers revised the access priorities for the shared memory"

Where were you during Trinity APU reviews?

HD4000 is crap for 3D games!

Intel will be lucky to even match Trinity with Haswell's APU. Core i3 is also a terrible choice for a console with only 2 cores and Core i5/i7 parts are too expensive.
15 9 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 07:10:16 PM]
so now you are talking about low-end stuff and cheering about it? LOL How sad and how low have you AMD fan-boys dropped. Next year you might be cheering for AMD getting into pci usb cards. LOL
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 07:26:30 AM]
I am not cheering anything related to PC laptops/desktops. I am talking about PS4 rumors. Core i3 or Core i5 HD4000 in a console is a disaster. Such a console without a discrete GPU is a non-starter. Let me know how MS/Sony can afford a $200 Core i5 + NV discrete GPU that's not some crappy GTX650 and stay under $399 MSRP.

NV wasn't able to deliver a good GPU for PS3 at a good price and it was still inferior in performance to Xbox 360's unified shader GPU that came out 1 year earlier.

NV has nothing better in price/performance with GTX600 series, and nothing that can fit into a console with good performance at a similar price/performance with GTX500 compared to what AMD can offer with its HD7000/6000 series. It's unlikely NV has any chance winning anything (I'll give them a 3% chance for winning PS4 design and 15% chance of winning Xbox 720 design).
13 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:29:27 PM]

Very logical and expected move from Sony.Apu prove itself in games ,better solution than Intel whose gpu unit is cripple.
8 5 [Posted by: Blackcode  | Date: 11/02/12 09:58:32 AM]

Awww Looks like there is no steamroller for 2013.
What a shame. Maybe AMD is officially out of the High-End Desktops? mmstick???? LoL
I think its time for you mmstick to purchase an i7-3770k just as i did before the price skyrockets upwards.
Well your assertions that i made a wrong decision for purchasing the i7-3770k was wrong mmstick.

3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 07:44:46 AM]
- collapse thread

Your assertions that I should buy an i7 3770k instead of 10 FX-8120s is wrong. In fact, you still have yet to prove to me what you can do with Intel that I can't already do with AMD. I've asked you this a dozen times, yet you seem to be unable to respond to it with an answer, this concludes that there is absolutely nothing that you can do that I can't already do. The funny part, you say you bought the processor for gaming, yet I have higher framerates than you do with my AMD machine, because you bought an Intel processor instead of a better graphics card.

Also, your image proves nothing, and don't post anything from donanimhaber on this website, it is a known rumour mill. As you said earlier, rumours, unfortunately, are not facts.

I'm afraid my next 10 processors will be Steamrollers, whether you like it or not. Intel cannot compete in highly threaded environments, and that marginal 5-15% difference in single thread performance makes absolutely no difference to me when I can easily overclock to overcome that anyway.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:27:01 PM]
"Intel cannot compete in highly threaded environments."

LOL You are full of yourself saying BS.
Just face it mmstick AMD is DEAD and a sinking ship. In fact they are on their final stages before they shut down completely. You just want to DIE HARD like a DIE HARD AMD fan-boy.

Oh sorry i forgot to tell you, i have also purchased a gtx 690 by the way. Its on its way coming, i should receive it within next week.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 01:43:13 PM]
So this is your comeback, you once again refused to comply with a proper, logical answer, and are reduced to this. You have this funny habit of saying AMD is dead and using a lot of caps whenever you have lost an argument and you don't know what to say. If you can't have a technical discussion, and refuse to comply with the technical discussions in exist, you have no reason to be here.

GTX 690? Good luck with your terribad GPGPU performance and subpar FPS compared to AMD graphics cards. It takes 3 GTX 690s to equal one 7970 in any kind of OpenCL computations, therefore consuming significantly more power to achieve the same performance, which is sad. NVIDIA has terrible OpenCL drivers (they must consume an entire CPU core), but at least they are better than Intel drivers (which can't even execute OpenCL instructions yet).
4 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 01:53:08 PM]
I don't need to get in a detailed discussion with you mmstick. You are mentally ill and brainwashed.
The facts are all on the net mmstick, its not my fault if you chose to deny them.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 02:03:33 PM]
Rumours aren't facts Avon, better luck next time on your other websites.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:24:02 PM]
You wont have any luck when you will finally wont have anything to write about AMD Cause that is where things are heading to.
Good luck with that. LoL
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 02:30:23 PM]
Oh, you mean like you? You don't have anything to write about, so you simply resort to rumours, exaggerations, and lies. Not only that, you repeat these endlessly. You are barking up the wrong tree while your own house is burning down.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 02:41:25 PM]
The only burning house is AMD and its quite obvious also.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 02:45:00 PM]
What's the title of this News story?

No one cares about i7-3770K vs. any AMD CPU for this article. If you want to discuss desktop CPUs, go somewhere else. The discussion here is about PS4's technical specs. Discuss PS4 or move on.
16 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 05:43:55 PM]
You mean the Rumors about the PS4?
Sure we will talk about that if you like.
I agree that was off-topic but mmstick said to me that AMD is not abandoning the High-End Desktops so i had to reply.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 06:25:48 PM]
"AMD is not abandoning the High-End Desktops so i had to reply."

I already told you like 10x - AMD has already abandoned high-end desktops. What's Vishera's MSRP? $199 for FX8350 and $169 for FX8320. AMD has publicly stated they won't make high-end CPUs anymore. Does this need to be repeated ad-nauseum?

Moving on to PS4, let's hypothetically assume that they will not be based around AMD's APUs, what do you propose as the alternative CPU solution?
15 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/03/12 07:16:52 PM]
You silly that is what i have told to mmstick that AMD is abandoning the High-End cpu market and he kept insisting that AMD would not abandon the High-End.
You did not tell me that sorry.
IBM would definitely crush that silly apu.

Edit: You see BestJinjo? he is still insisting because he is a very proud AMD Fan-Boy with their sucky processors.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/03/12 07:37:00 PM]
Because they haven't, otherwise FX 8s would not exist. Like it or not, they are no less high end than you wish they were. Therefore, they have not abandoned it. There is plenty of demand for FX-8s, so it would be unheard of for them from a marketing standpoint to not make them.

IBM and AMD have a close partnership where they share technologies, it wouldn't be too different. An IBM APU would involve IBM architecture and AMD GPUs and their technology to integrate it with the CPU. It would also mean they would have to make brand new compilers. It is easier to use existing compilers, and potentially better optimized at this point.
3 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:27:24 PM]
The difference is that IBM if they wanted AMD out of the way they can do it from tomorrow because they are much more advanced than AMD.
Finally you will see what comes in 2013 and you will stop talking about AMD.
Enjoy your 8120's because they will be your last ones from AMD. When its time for you to upgrade you wont have any choice and you will have to purchase Intel processors. I know that it will burn you inside but that is life. Welcome to the real world mmstick.
2 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 03:12:22 AM]
Obviously you don't know anything about AMD or IBM. AMD exists today as it is because of IBM. IBM was the one to force Intel to give AMD the license to make x86 processor, as per IBM's rule.

IBM left the desktop market in the hands of AMD and Intel as they set off to a gigantic service-based company, finding solutions to big problems, from researching better battery technologies, to helping university scientists get up and running with distributed computing projects (World Community Grid), researching future processor technologies, even the first quantum processor.

The last thing IBM wants is for AMD to 'die'. As a partner of IBM, AMD has plenty of access to getting aid from IBM for their processor designing.

Even bulldozer's design was aided by IBM's findings in their research, it is the reason why FX had such an increase frequency gain over Phenom II, however the unforeseeable happened within FX design that software cannot account for, and that was the type of cache they used, which may have been fine with Phenom II manufacturing scale, as everything in the processor got smaller, it produce some fancy problems due to quantum physics, thus resulting in lots of cache missing which reduces the performance of each core as well as one decode unit is not enough for two cores (What you mistakenly call low IPC). Both of these are fixed for Steamroller. Piledriver fixed some of the cache issues by upping the cache size (which was found to reduce the cache missing), which you now see as a huge performance increase, but the major changes can't happen until the next die shrink with Steamroller. If AMD had deep pockets like Intel, they would have been able to make a Bulldozer prototype, find the problem, and address these problems ahead of time. However, they do not, especially hard with people like you spreading BS at every corner.

Even Intel shares a lot of technology AMD invented. There is a ton of components and instructions in Intel processors that are the result of AMD. In fact, you are probably running an AMD64 OS right now. I could see Intel also implementing the resonant clock mesh that AMD implemented into the Piledriver processor. Even further, the High Density Libraries technology AMD is about to use in their processors is going to create something interesting. Without AMD, Intel processors wouldn't nearly be as great.


However, you are too dumb to understand any of this, so feel free to go back to your AMD IS DEAD drivel.
5 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:47:17 AM]
I wont answer all that but i have told you so many times by now that steamroller based stuff have been cancelled.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 04:21:48 AM]
You have nothing to answer anyway, as you are too stupid to understand it. Steamroller was never cancelled. If it was cancelled it would already be in the tech headlines, however it isn't. Therefore, you can take your BS and shove it right back down your throat. Your comments are way overused, to the point where you are so cliched, it's too easy to predict how you will respond. Why not come up with something actually intellectually engaging for once instead of making a fool of yourself online?

You know nothing about processors, and you will never be able to charade your fake knowledge around here.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 05:17:18 AM]
LOL I think you need to cool down. have a cold shower, that might help.
You don't believe me that steamroller has been cancelled. Fine have it your way. But don't come after to me and tell me that i did not tell you about this.
2 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 06:48:39 AM]
HAH! Says the little boy with no proof that Steamroller has been canceled, while the rest of the world shows proof of steamroller.

The only thing canceled is your pathetic troll skills.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:09:46 PM]
Hey Moron, That article is very old and many things have changed since then. BAKA BAKA.
2 3 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 04:02:40 PM]
The only thing that is old here is your lame excuse for an existence. ????? Seriously? Go back to the weaboo farm you belong at.

I'd like to see YOUR article on how 'things have changed,' little boy.
4 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 07:16:41 PM]
AvON, IBM would crush APU's APU? With what, Apple marketing campaign? PowerPC is overhyped and always has been.

Xbox 360's 3 core 2 HT PowerPC = 75-80% of a single modern CPU core (i.e., one Core i7 Nehalem Core):

Gaming performance:

Intel's CPUs >> AMD CPUs
AMD's CPUs >>>>>>>IBM's CPUs.
14 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:36:05 PM]
High End processors don't need to be ridiculously expensive in order to be high end. They stated they wouldn't compete in the high end processor competition anymore, not that they wouldn't be making them. They only stated not to expect any of their high end processors to defeat Intel, which is impossible because Intel has more R&D funding and custom fabs.

FX-8320 and FX-8350 are very much high end, they compete with Intel's high end processors very easily in a properly compiled environment such as Linux, where even a FX-8350 trades blows with a 3770k.

If we were talking about High End Workstations, it would be involving multi processor Xeons and Opterons. However, FX-8300 is perfect for a low end workstation, aka a High End Desktop.

What would you consider as 'high end desktop' usage?
5 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/03/12 11:30:59 PM]
Everybody knows that AMD has not been in the High-End desktop segment from quite some time now.
But you, you are a completely different story. LoL
If you think AMD has High-End Desktop processors there is not really much that someone can say to you.
You moron we don't have or need processors for workstations get the f*ck out. You are useless and a complete imbecile.
AMD is out of the HIgh-End Desktop Market whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

You are to be pitied really.
Me "Shakes Head"
2 4 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 03:29:06 AM]
"Everybody knows that AMD has not been in the High-End desktop segment from quite some time now.
But you, you are a completely different story. LoL
If you think AMD has High-End Desktop processors there is not really much that someone can say to you."

FX-8350 exists, therefore your point is moot. Better luck next time little 15 year old.

"You moron we don't have or need processors for workstations get the f*ck out."

Oh, so you are the CPU authority now? Are you going to march up to all those companies across the globe, the entire music and video industry, game developers and programmers, and anyone else who needs workstation machines, and tell them that they don't need workstations? ROFL

"You are useless and a complete imbecile."

Say that to the mirror, trust me, you'd be saying something true for once.

"AMD is out of the HIgh-End Desktop Market whether you like it or not. Deal with it."

By whose authority, pray tell? Yours?

"You are to be pitied really.
Me "Shakes Head""

Your entire existence is already pitied worldwide, your mother would be ashamed of you if she saw what you post online. Also, the correct method of gesturing is by the usage of asterisks, your way looks beyond stupid, as if you failed your English class, which you probably are.
5 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 05:25:13 AM]
Did a bit more of your brain fall out when you shook your head Avon? AMD will not go for CPU prestige at this time of financial hardship because:

a) Prolonged recession due to greedy bankers on Wall Street (and their men in Washington) and Chinese Communist Party not playing by international currency rules has decreased major markets in USA and Europe, not compensated completely by Asia.

b) AMD does not want to stir Intel's hornet nest. If they release a faster CPU, Intel will just up the ante and AMD will be in more trouble. Since the economic crisis, the two companies have been in a duopoly pattern where AMD releases CPUs below Intel's finest but have some wins in the low and mid range. ARM is now disrupting this pattern before the economic crisis has resolved causing AMD, particularly, some headaches.

It doesn't mean that they don't have a High-End CPU in their range just because Intel has a higher one.

I think we'll see closer competition in the x86 space when the world economic recession is over - maybe 3 or even 5 years time. History demonstrates this when economic activity was peaking in 1999/00 and 2005/06.
16 3 [Posted by: linuxlowdown  | Date: 11/04/12 05:29:23 AM]
Steamroller has been cancelled, fit that through your head.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 05:39:07 AM]
Steamroller is cancelled and IT'S Going to COST AMD BIG TIME. AMD IS GOING DOWN!!!!!
2 3 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 09:26:46 AM]
123 AND AVON ARE GOING DOWN!!! AVON's comments are a SINKING SHIP. DIE AVON AND 123 DIE! Intel is COSTING THEM BIG TIME! AMD is rising to the TOP!

See, I can do that too.
4 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:13:24 PM]
Which rising are you talking about?
Dead people don't all of a sudden get up and walk.
That is exactly what AMD is, they are DEAD.
I think you watch to many movies.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 03:21:32 PM]
Mmstick your dumb comments are making me laugh your telling ALL LIES I am telling the WHOLE TRUTH.
2 3 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 04:01:09 PM]
Except it is already well established that all you two do is lie and spread rumours on a repeated basis. I have a lot of credibility behind my words, and you? You have none.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 07:18:01 PM]
This whole article is a rumor, don't know if you realized this or not.
2 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 10:15:36 PM]
The only rumour is that it is reported that the developer kits have been sent. However, nothing else is a rumour, but common knowledge. We all knew Sony was looking for and AMD APU, an AMD already stated they were making deals with all console manufacturers, while Sony and Microsoft stated they wanted something lower powered, something more leaning into the APU market.

However, you have your head stuck so far up Intel's butt for so long, you wouldn't know this anyway.

Once again, you demonstrate you lack the knowledge to be here on this website in technical discussions regarding relevant subjects.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/05/12 01:21:10 AM]
XBOX will use an Intel CPU whether you like this or not. This is all a game and i know you are to dumb to understand this. They would not give details on what they are planning to do. How would xbox and sony compete with each other if they have hardware based on the same sh*t. Its common sense mmstick.
2 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/05/12 02:15:32 AM]
What Credibility?
2 3 [Posted by: 123  | Date: 11/04/12 11:10:36 PM]
The credibility you don't have. I know it is hard for you to grasp what credibility is, especially when all of your sources are illegitimate and frauds.
2 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/05/12 01:21:53 AM]
By whose authority? Yours? Go call AMD and tell them to cancel Steamroller, then get laughed at by people who know more about business and processors than you will ever understand in your lifetime.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 03:11:16 PM]
You fool i don't need to call anyone they have already cancelled it on their own.
Desktop Roadmap shows this clearly, even their next 3rd gen trinity will be piledriver and not steamroller. If they do a steamroller version that would be for the servers and maybe apu's only and expect that coming in 2014, not now. Wake up mmstick they have abandoned the high-end. Only APU's and server processors. They have thrown in the towel mmstick. I am afraid you don't understand the situation at AMD, They have to many projects open and their staff is very limited. The have to deal with the consoles, the new deal with ARM 64bit+ x86 server processors,graphics and APU's. They cant do the high-end desktop processors as well and it is very logical to abandon it.
2 2 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 03:26:30 PM]
They haven't, not at all. What kind of point are trying to make here? You can't just reused arguments that have been invalidated in order to keep a discussion going. Either present something that I haven't already destroyed with the red truth, or this isn't going anywhere at all.

No matter what you say, people are buying AMD processors, workstations still exist, the world is much bigger than you think. There is an ever increasing demand for more cores, more clusters, more processing power. The entire world is not a collection of clones of yourself. I use over 80 processor cores 24/7 full load nonstop for over 7 months now, there is no end in sight, only that I need more cores.

Do you realize just how many computations is required for 3D rendering, encoding, ray tracing, data mining, compiling, and research? I've executed more processor instructions than you will ever use in your entire lifetime from the looks of it.

FX-8350 is still there selling well on Amazon, Newegg, and Tigerdirect. So again, your point is moot. In fact, it's selling so well Newegg is out of stock again. You aren't convincing people hard enough as to why they shouldn't be buying from AMD. They are loving it. Here is one of their reviews:

"Great workstation CPU (How ironic, talking about workstations and someone made a review on it)

Other Thoughts: Multi-thread performance is fantastic. This chip trades blows in multi-thread with a 3770k, which costs significantly more. When you overclock it, it comes close to a stock 3930k intel six core. Considering to get that out of an overclocked Intel costs 50% more than the FX 8350, this chip is a no brainer if you do video editing and transcoding, photo work, 3d modeling, or anything else that benefits from more cores. Also, considering a 3930k almost costs three times as much, this offers a tremendous value for people who need a good chip for mult-threaded tasks. "

I don't need to wake up since I am living in reality, you need to get out of your mothers basement and get real world experience in reality.
4 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 07:28:49 PM]
Look people what desperation and a little AMD brainwashing does to you. If i let this fool alone next thing he is going to do, he is going to be comparing the fx chips with i7-3960x. LOL
Once you start saying so many bullshit it comes natural to you, to start going to the next level. LOL You leveled up mmstick, you have unlocked some achievements its worth 500 points. LOL
Is this a video game you are playing? Please tell me the title of this game so i can sh*t myself to death laughing. LOL
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 09:35:53 PM]
All I see is a little boy bashing people on the Internet without a sliver of sense. How ironic that every time you spout BS like that, it is essentially you talking about yourself.
4 2 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 09:50:39 PM]
Please don't edit that post on the top mmstick.
So everybody can see this. LOL
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 10:01:56 PM]

The new specs on the PS4 are super popular! lol so many comments
i for one welcome the move to an AMD CPU/8GBram+ HD8770 GPU
2 2 [Posted by: vid_ghost  | Date: 11/04/12 04:21:27 PM]
- collapse thread

If you expect that to happen you would be better off building a desktop pc. LOL
That would cost too much if the console has that kind of specs.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/04/12 04:33:31 PM]
Do you know what you are really talking about? That wouldn't cost a lot at all. Sony gets their parts cheaper than you do at a retail store. 8770 won't be very expensive to them either, maybe 30$, 8GB RAM probably costs $10 or less, an AMD APU for them would probably be within 20-30$ range. Big corporations like Sony pay wholesale price, not market retail price.

Edit: Oh, so you don't believe me, little fanboys? Ever attended business classes? Apparently not. I shot your comment out of the water, so while you were unable to reply, you could only thumbs down instead. That means you have acknowledged my post and have receeded.
4 4 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/04/12 07:36:03 PM]
There is no point arguing with a "tool" like you.
I have hit the ignored button at the moment.
3 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/05/12 12:15:07 PM]
Perusing 190+ posts and PS4 has HD8770 GPU? Vid_ghost, where did you get that info?
13 7 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:41:02 PM]

I am afraid that haswell will be replacing the the AMD stuff for the consoles. Much more powerful and much more efficient that console makers cannot overlook. I bet at least one of the two consoles would go with an Intel CPU and especially if Intel gives them a good offer.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/05/12 12:42:57 AM]
- collapse thread

And you came up with this on what basis, may I ask? This won't happen even in your dreams, so commenting about it here will not make it happen.
3 3 [Posted by: mmstick  | Date: 11/05/12 01:29:49 AM]
May i ask on what basis this article popped up here? After all its just a rumor.
2 3 [Posted by: AvONbaCK  | Date: 11/05/12 01:40:23 AM]
Avon, did you hear the next Xbox will have Intel Haswell i7-4770K? Ya....true story.

Just above you posted:

"If you expect that to happen you would be better off building a desktop pc. LOL
That would cost too much if the console has that kind of specs."

Now you are saying a next gen console(s) will have a Haswell CPU? I have ice cubes to sell you this winter. Do you know the type of margins Intel charges on its CPUs? Good luck fitting a Core i5/i7 Haswell CPU into a next generation console! Not to mention Haswell isn't out until June 2013 and next generation console designs will be finalized before then.

Intel's Core i5 CPU directly from Intel would cost more than HD8770 directly from AMD assuming HD8770 maintains $159 MSRP as HD7770 did. This is common sense comparing AMD's and Intel's margins. If Xbox next has a Haswell quad-core CPU, it'll cost $500-700. No one would be stupid enough to use a dual-core i3 in the next generation console because the average consumer will never buy a next generation consoles with a dual-core CPU in 2013! MS and Sony are marketing to console gamers. To them MOAR cores = better! That's why the next consoles will get AMD/PowerPC "MOAR cores" chips.
14 8 [Posted by: BestJinjo  | Date: 11/05/12 10:45:03 PM]


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