I dont see anything inherently wrong with selling machines with overclocked processors. As long as teh same standards of stability and reliability are met, and there are no deceptions going on then there are only benefits to be gained for the moderate enthusiast who does not wish to put in the effort to do the overclocking themselves.

True that Intel processors recently havent been tp performers, but just because a company sellse overclocked machinces does not mean they are trying to compensate for some kind of deficiency in the processor itself. After all Falcon Northwest, Voodoo, and others sell machines with factory overclocked AMD processors in them. Does this mean that AMD processors suck, and need to be overclocked to make them competative? Of course not.

As to binning the processors, whats wrong with taking the cream of the crop and putting them in more enthusiast oriented machines, and putting the less overclockable processors in more "normal" machines? More then like the people who buy "normal" machines are not going to engage in any high degree of overclocking if at all to begin with.

Thus as long as Dell is upfront that these machines are overclocked, and stability and reliablility remain the same, then I see nothing wrong with this. The fact that they are overclocking Intel processors to make the machine more competative speaks more selling to the rich moderate enthusiast who wants the speed, without the work, and the fact that Dell is an Intel only house, and less to do with trying to make Intel processors more competative with AMD. Especially since many vendors sell machines with overclocked AMD chips.

You mention Dell in the same sentence as Falcon Northwest? Are you kidding?

Can you have ever seen IBM of the past overclocking CPUs? Good grief, they were so safe with their computers they added extra interleaving and wait states. In fact they were underclocking 33 MHz 486s at 25 MHz in a lot of machines.

For nothing companies like you mention to overclock means nothing, they are not huge corporate entities that sell to huge corporate entities. Big companies overclocking is really, really strange, in fact it is unheard of. Compaq never did, IBM never did, HP never did, etc... Voodo is not quite in that league.

With regards to reliability,you can't get the same reliability from an overclocked processor than you could if the processor were clocked lower. It might work fine now, but they age faster. If Intel is not willing to guarantee a processor at a certain speed, and they make it, why should I trust a company that does not make them? They may work fine for now, but they will not last as long. The only question is, even with a shorten life, will that last longer than their useful life. I wouldn't want to take that chance on a 10K machine.

If these processors could perform adequately they would not find it necessary to overclock them. Dell had to overclock because everyone knows the Athlon 64 FX series is faster than the fastest normally clocked Pentium 4 EE, and you can not sell a machine for $10,000 with a second rate processor. Everyone would say, yeah, it's a cool machine, but the processor sucks and would look to AMD based. Overclocked like that, it creates uncertainty as to which really is the faster processor.

You are confused about what is a "normal" machine. Someone buying ANY EE edition Pentium 4 is not a buying a "normal" computer, they are paying for an extremely expensive processor and without question a high-end machine. Except, they are getting the lower grade parts in these machines. If I were buying an EE based machine, I would not even consider buying from Dell now. I'd buy from someone else that wasn't using their best processor in a "signature" series that was grossly overpriced and used parts I didn't need.

If Dell introduced this computer from Alienware, a second-rate company with no business relevance, I would not have been so shocked by it. You can expect this type of stuff from those companies, but from a company that sells corporate, it's inappropriate.

I would bet Intel is embarrassed by this. They desperately need to get Conroe out and put all this nonsense behind them.

I wasent putting Dell in the same league as Falcon Northwest and Voodoo, I was mearly pointing out that there are other companies that sell machines with overclocked processors. In addition to that those machines with overclocked processors are usually AMD processors.

Besides, so what if Dell has opened up a new product catagory aimed at gaming enthusiast. Your acting like they are turning all of their machines from buisness class to average joe $400 machines into machines with overccloked processors. Just because they add another category of computer sales to their product lineup doesnt mean the other product line ups are somehow infected.

If IBM suddenly decided tommarow to add a new product line aimed at gaming enthusiast to their products, I wouldnt suddenly think that their server line has suddenly gone down in quality, and I wouldnt think less of IBM. I would think that they are trying to branch out and further difersify their product line, and tap into a high margin market.

If Dell wants to try to take on the likes of Voodoo and Falcon Northwest, more power to them. Do I think they are anywhere near as good in the enthusiast space? No. Are they killing themselves in the enthusiast space by useing only Intel processors? Yes. Hopefully sooner or later they will learn their lesson.

Of course none of this has anything to do with selling machines with overclocked proccesors. Like I said before other companines sell great enthusiast machines with overclocked AMD processors.

Just because they are selling machines with overclocked processors doesnt not mean desperation, or compensation for some defficiency. It just means that there is a market for machines that are overclocked from the factory, instead of hand tuned by the buyer. The buyer is paying for conviniece, and a factory warrented overclock that you couldnt get if you did it on yoru own. For the moderate enthusiast, who doesnt want to, or doesnt know how do do it themselves, and has lots of cash to burn, machiens with overclcoked cps, and gpus, are good buys.

Whether the processor is Intel or AMD has nothing to do with the purpose behind selling machines with overclocked cpus.

As to speed binning proccessors, its no differnt than speed binning gpus, that are then sold as graphics cards that come factory overclocked, or binning ram chips for use in enthusiast grade ram; all of which come with a price premium.

In the end selling machines with overclocked processors does nothing to embarrass Intel, or Dell, no more than selling machines with overclocked processors embarras AMD and Voodoo/Flacon. What embarrases Intel and Dell is Intel processors losing on performance and putting out more heat, and Dell only using Intel processors inspite of these issuses.

Yeah bro. The XPS 600 series is directly aimed at stealing market share from the likes of Alienware (don't remember if Dell bought them or not), Falcon NW and Voodoo. The enthusiast sector that is millions on top of millions to be made. Legit overclocked cpus (ones that are known to be overclocked) is what gamers want. This type of thing boosts benchmarking scores (3DMark 0* for example). Having one that comes overclocked from the factory with the warranty to boot just can't be beat. Gamers are a different breed. We don't expect to have any part of our computer more than a couple years. Video card changes every new generation etc. So the EE with that slight overclock won't burn out in a couple years...hell...by next year we'll have a new cpu in there anyways. Most likely we'll overclock the bad boy even higher just for a few days of glory to have one of the fastest desktops on the planet. Its all about bragging rights... Dell isn't in the same league when it comes to the "true" enthusiast companies...but they damn sure are trying hard. Go to futuremark.com and you'll understand the crazy alittle more. Check out "the orb" for top scores. Look at people using dry ice and voltage mods to overclock cpus to thier absolute limits.

Don't get this confused bud...we like overclocked goodies with warranties. Cuz the fastest "stock" cpus just ain't fast enough. We can't wait for Conroes to get overclocked and hopefully we'll see some 15second Super Pi scores. Maybe even 10 seconds...Omfg! heheh anyways...i'll hursh now.

It is clear you don't work for a big company IT department based on your remarks.

The fact that a company like Dell would overclock, at all, shows they do not respect reliability and are half rate. Big corporate companies are really sensitive to perceived unreliability, and IBM was NEVER stupid enough to do that. Actually, no other big company was. Someone making these machines approved lowering reliability, which overclocking ALWAYS does since it ALWAYS shortens the lifespan, and if that person is the CEO, it is a bad reflection on everything else they sell. It's just not corporate.

They could have competed with those companies easily by selling these machines through Alienware. Putting the Dell name on an overclocked machine hurts their reputation.

This machine is a good buy for someone? Overclocking is a child's game these days, it takes no talent, no knowledge, nothing. Back when you'd have to unsolder crystals and sometimes memory on the motherboard, make sure the cards you used could run at the speed, and switch out the BIOS, it took some skill. Any idiot can do it now. Plus, this $10,000 machine represents an extremely poor value, and is not a good deal for anyone. It will be obsolete in a few months, and 10K for a soon obsolete machine is a lot of cash to spend.

Your point of view is understandable, but clearly shows you do not understand how big businesses work. If you ever mentioned overclocking to an IT department, they'll look at you like your a brainless twit (I know, I did it back in the Celeron 300a days, which was a really easy, safe and painless overclock :P) and it is a huge taboo. Big companies like Dell are not supposed to do it, and it will hurt their reputation, if people find out.

It is a huge embarrassment for Intel, since up until now Dell didn't feel they had to do this to be competitive. Do you think Intel will like it when these processors die prematurely and people get angry at Intel for it? You think they'll overclock Conroes when they come out?

If Intel felt these processors were capable of running reliably, over time, at speeds so high, they would have released them at that speed bin. They are pretty close to the max speeds enthusiast sites can reach with these processors, which means they are very close to the edge. One reason processor makers do not sell processors right at their highest speed is they will not last long. There are two reasons, they decay faster from the greater temperature variations, and also they have much less slack on the line to give up. Dell sacrificed reliability because they couldn't match the performance of the Athlon 64 without doing so. That's embarrassing for both Intel and Dell. Overclocking at all is embarrassing for a big company. You've got a small company, hobbyist perspective so clearly this isn't making sense to you, but I'll try something else ...

Has IBM ever done it? Forget your irrelevant speculation about if they did and how you'd feel. Have they? Did Compaq ever do it? Did or does HP? Has even Apple ever done it? Do you understand that big companies have not done this? Forget little companies, I would have no problem with Alienware releasing this. I am talking big corporations that sell to other big corporations, and sell a lot based on reputation. They just don't do this stuff. Except for Dell. They are so desperate they were willing to risk tarnishing their reputation. It's crazy.

Now, there is a possibility that Intel sent them special versions of the chips that they approved at those speeds, and were not available to other companies. I can not say for sure that this is not true. If it is true, than none of what I am saying is pertinent, since Intel approved these processor at these speeds (they may be from the new process and it has not been widely implemented yet, so they have only limited numbers). I doubt this is the case, but it is always possible.

Its clear you need to get off your high horse and listen. Dell is a huge company as we all know. Dell is trying to sell on all sectors, not big coporations alone. I'm in the Air Force if your curious to know...the only contract the military has (all branches) is Dell. The IT person in each Group/Squadron or whatever purchases the computers based on specific needs. The person knows not to buy a Celeron chip and they damn sure aren't going to buy the any XPS 600. You'd be lucky as hell if you could get a computer with an add-in video card. Dell's prices and outstanding military warranties (can't speak for civilian warranties cuz I won't buy a Dell). The person knows the difference and the different sectors. Oh btw, these computers a custom made for the military...primarly the same parts...but loaded with different software from Dell. This is yet another group of folks Dell reaches out to. If Dell had focused on only one group of people they wouldn't be the mega company they are today. Period.

The fact that neither of those companies are as large as Dell goes to show you who is stupid and whose not. Dell is tapping into areas left untouched. I see what your saying in a round about way. If Dell was to o/c thier standard line being sold to coperations that need these computer for 10-15 yrs this would be a horrible horrible way for Dell to conduct business and would shrink to the size of Gateway or something.

The Delienware thing...eh. We have to wait and see on this. I sure as hell hope they don't ruin that company. As you can see a major player like Dell sees huge value in the gamers market. Why? Huge money. Is it as big as the coporate players...hell no. Not even somewhat close. But more money is more money. Dell isn't stupid by far. Why didn'they release this through Alienware...what for? Dell has been making XPS systems for a few years now aimed at the gaming market. This could be Dells last big bang before turning over that sector to Alienware.

To say overclocking doesn't take any knowledge to do...your absolutely clueless to this realm. Your so quick to insult its unreal. Step off your high horse for a minute and realize its a market. Every major company makes sure their mobo, video cards, etc have try to make sure they can be overclocked. If they didn't why in hell would they have so many options to do so? The bios would be locked...cpus wouldn't have any headroom. And Intel and AMD would have never made the EE and FX series with unlocked multipliers. They are MADE TO BE OVERCLOCKED! That is fact. Dell overclocked the only CPU from INTEL that is made this way for that single purpose. Heat kills. So if they have a decent cooler on it'll last longer. Besides...crazed o/c'ers don't keep CPUs for a long time. After 1 year is usually we are buying a new CPU anyways. If we do keep it...we'll have it just for the secondary computer. The computer I'm typing on now is an overclocked AMD XP chip water cooled. Its been that way for over 4 yrs and still going strong.

Oh would I ever spend 10k on a computer...hell no. Why? Cuz I could spend 1/5th that prices and it would be faster. But this computer was a collectors edition. Nothing more. To say you have 4 video cards playing Oblivion...your the shit right now. Its like buying an exotic sports car...do you need it? Hell no cuz you could buy a 50k car put nitrous out the ass with major engine mods spend roughly 75k and you'll have a car faster than that 400k car. Plan and simple. Because Ford made the Ford GT that sells for 250k does that make you stop buying the F-150? Hell no, this is the same idea.

Well Conroe do it? You bet you ass they will. Once the EE version comes out late this year beginning of next year. It will have an unlocked multiplier as well. EE will and the FX will be out for years to come. Because o/c community will always want the very best that generation of cpus has to offer.

I order computers for a very large company...the Air Force. Do we know the difference? I'm pretty sure. IF we weren't locked into buying Dell only computers, I damn sure would have been buying AMD Opterons years ago. But thats not the case...XPS systems would never been sold to the Air Force anyways. Well maybe the visual department...and they get new computers every other year. Oh btw, we have our on Dell certified person on base...so if anything goes wrong they fix it on the spot. Its part of the multi-million dollar deal we have with Dell.

I truely understand what your saying about Dell tarnishing thier rep. This won't happen bro. If you understand at where this is aimed you wouldn't be looking at a 4 video card gaming monster with Mikey Dells name written all over it with custom paint. Just isn't going to happen. I just couldn't see the CEO of Nabisco sending e-mails out on this.

So basically what your saying is this.....

Dell is a big compnay which sells lots of different types of computers for differnt markets, they sell lots of differnt types of servers, lots of differnt machines for corporations and buisnesses, workstations, and they sell to regular consumers. Up until now their machines have been fine.

Now they decided to make a new line of computer for high, high end enthusiast, and provide a factory overclcoked processor, and suddenly all of their other lines of computers, from their workstations to their servers, to their 400 dollar machines, are suddenly suspect for quality!?!

The new line changes absolutly nothing in the other lines, it does not suddenly mean that dell servers or buisness computers are unrealiable. They are not selling this new XPS as a server solution LOL, and they arnt selling it as a corporate solution either. They are selling it as a high end gamers machine. Period.

One has nothing to do with the other. Your logic makes no sense whatsoever. No one ever said its a good idea to sell servers or buisness machines with overclocked processors. Just because they decide to sell a new line to a differnet market, does nto mean they are going to come out with new models for all lines that have overclocked processors.

They certainly arnt taking these EE's from their server machines or corporate machines either. There is just no connection between the new XPS with its overclocked processor, and dells server lines and buisness machines and its regular consumer mahines.

Heck, for $10K I'd expect more RAM, CPUs, harddrives, etc :)

They sold 30